Bye Bye Bye featuring Erika Taylor Beck

Transcript

Rob Dwyer (00:02.604)
Hey, we're back for another episode of Next In Queue. I am Rob Dwyer and today got an old friend rejoining the show. It has been a long, long time, but welcome back to Next In Queue. Erika Taylor-Beck. How are you?

Erika Taylor-Beck (00:18.338)
I am great. Thank you for having me back. am very excited to be here.

Rob Dwyer (00:22.446)
It is always fun to revisit someone, particularly when they are in a different place in the world. And that absolutely describes you. The last time that we talked, you were a support leader at a company. You had been there over a decade. Today, you lead your own company, Authentic Foundation. So tell us.

just by way of introduction, kind of what you're doing today.

Erika Taylor-Beck (00:55.012)
Sure. So I am a leadership coach. And so I have taken my almost 20 years of experience leading teams and doing training for teams. And I left the corporate world almost a year ago at this point and decided to start my own business to help provide training foundations for managers to help them become better leaders.

Rob Dwyer (01:18.028)
This is a huge topic that I think gets avoided at most companies. I feel like I was lucky the first time I got into a management role, like a frontline management role. I was sent on a week long like workshop to learn some very foundational skills about leading people. Is that the norm?

in your experience that people go somewhere to learn these skills that are new to them?

Erika Taylor-Beck (01:52.28)
No, not at all. So I think most organizations tend to promote their really good employees. They step up into manager roles and they think, hey, look, you've been doing this job for so long. You know how to do this. Lead the team to totally different skill sets. So doing the job and managing the people doing the job, completely different. And so there's this gap in thinking there. My personal experience, I at the company you mentioned, I was there for almost 11 years.

did send new managers through, I think it was a few days, like a few days long bootcamp for manager training. And it's a really great starting point, but it's just a couple of days and it's very theory based. Like here's some things, here's how to do a one-on-one, here's this and that. But it doesn't really provide enough of the foundation to get some hands-on experience. Here's how to handle conflict. Here's how to really.

terminate somebody and have a performance improvement conversation. Like we didn't really dive into that to a way where you would walk away feeling, I can handle this. I feel really confident in having these tough conversations. So I think the answer, short answer is no, that's not common. But I think even the companies that are doing it, it's, just not quite enough. It's, it's a good starting point. It's better than nothing for sure. But there's ways to build upon it, especially if

you don't ever talk about this after that point. was, hey, you went through your one week bootcamp. Why are you not crushing life? And you need to maintain it and refresh it and just bring things up. If you don't use it, you lose it type of thing.

Rob Dwyer (03:24.558)
you

Rob Dwyer (03:32.236)
Yeah, absolutely. One does not learn how to play, let's say, basketball in a classroom talking about theory and Xs and Os on a whiteboard. You learn by doing, by making mistakes and then having someone there to kind of guide you through. And then you practice it again, right? Whatever the play is, you do it, you mess up.

And then you practice again with that coaching and then you do it again and again and again. And I think all too often what we see is exactly what you described is the whiteboard. And then we send people out into the world and like, aren't you a basketball star? Yeah. Well, you know, I'm, I'm a.

Erika Taylor-Beck (04:21.219)
Why are you not in the NBA yet?

Rob Dwyer (04:27.534)
5'11" white guy who's got a vertical that is about 5 inches. That's part of why I'm not in the NBA, but let's talk about yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk about some of these very specific skills. You said the skill set is very different and while I agree with you, I think we need to kind of get into the nitty gritty. So let's talk about just off the top of your head. What are some?

Erika Taylor-Beck (04:32.031)
Hahaha

bragging Rob quit bragging

Rob Dwyer (04:57.03)
Like what's the first skill that you like to work with a new leader on that is something they probably haven't used in their everyday job before becoming a leader?

Erika Taylor-Beck (05:10.019)
That's a great question. know, honestly, I think it's communication and creating the culture that you want people to support and to also help create. it's vulnerability. It's talking about when you make a mistake. It's having an open door and really meaning it. It's one thing to say, I have an open door, but if someone comes to you and you don't even look up from your computer, it's not a welcoming environment. It doesn't feel like you have an open door. So it's how you communicate and it's the...

the culture that you create where folks feel like, okay, I can ask questions, I can challenge ideas, I can speak up and be myself and not get in trouble for it.

Rob Dwyer (05:50.604)
I imagine that that is even more challenging if I haven't been in an environment like that before. Do you find that to be the case?

Erika Taylor-Beck (05:59.288)
Yes, 100%. You know, lot of, think what we have experienced is that when you go through becoming a new manager, you look at the people that you had as your managers, good and bad, and you say, I really liked how this person did that, so I'm going to try to implement it. I really didn't like how this person did this, so I'll try not to do that. But you still have a very limited view of just what you've experienced. And so if it's never been modeled for you,

you don't really know to do it. And if it's not part of the overall corporate culture or your organization culture, you're going to feel like the squeaky wheel or the problem if you're trying to do something different than what's normal. And so even though you might be 100 % in the right, you're going to feel wrong doing something different when everyone around you is not doing that.

Rob Dwyer (06:49.314)
Yeah, absolutely. So that's certainly a mindset shift, perhaps. Let's talk about some of the more structured things that I need to learn as a leader of people that maybe I haven't learned in the past. So you talked about, for instance, difficult conversations. I think a lot of people think, you should just be able to do that. But there really is.

kind of a structure that goes with that that can help you achieve a good outcome on both ends of that conversation,

Erika Taylor-Beck (07:28.161)
Mm-hmm, for sure. Yeah, it's not easy to have a hard conversation. Some people are very comfortable with it. They don't mind conflict. They don't mind challenging things. And I would say more people are really uncomfortable making waves, even asking questions and speaking up in a group. So to say, I disagree with you or, hey, here's something that you're doing, quote unquote, wrong. I don't want to do that. I don't know how you're going to respond to that. You might yell at me. You might scream. You might cuss me out. You might start to...

you might not say anything and just stare blankly. I don't know what you will do, so I don't know how to respond and I'm not prepared to do that. So let's just not do it is what happens is we'll just avoid giving feedback until we absolutely have to. And by then the problem is way too big, way too deep. So there's some stuff that you can do. And one of the things I coach on is how to give feedback and how to receive feedback and being open that if it's coming from a good place and as a manager, it should be.

It's to help somebody else. If you're not saying, wow, Rob, you really suck at this job and I see zero hope for you here. Like that's, that's not really feedback. That's just being a jerk and that's some criticism. But if you say you're really struggling with this key thing that we, know, this function that we do, what help do you need? What challenges are you having? And maybe you say, you know, honestly, I don't know. just, I don't know what I don't know. And so then as a manager, help find some ways to figure out what the root problem is and then maybe address it.

Rob Dwyer (08:38.113)
Mm-hmm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (08:57.163)
Is it training? Is it needing to sit with somebody who's a little bit more tenured? Does it more practice, more time? Maybe it's just you can't do it as quickly as it needs to happen, so can we slow it down? So finding a way to meet people where they are, and that's something that we're not really taught. It's just here's a feedback model, and then you can go and you have your script and you read it and say, hey, Rob, here's this feedback I have for you. I hope that you do better now.

like there's still some gaps there and that's the part that's missing is you can give anybody the information and the script, but how to handle the other person on the other side of it. And one big factor I talk about a lot is emotional intelligence and being able to manage your own emotions, but also the emotions of other people. I can't control how you will react, but I can control how I respond to how you react so that I can navigate this conversation effectively no matter which direction it goes.

So I think that's something that's really critical that we don't do enough.

Rob Dwyer (09:58.582)
Yeah, absolutely. You talked about some very specific reactions that people might have. It sounds like maybe this comes from a place of experience. Can you tell me about some of these challenging situations that you've run across that maybe at the time you didn't, maybe you didn't handle the way that you today would handle it and kind of what you took.

Erika Taylor-Beck (10:04.946)
You

Erika Taylor-Beck (10:10.865)
I was like, well...

Rob Dwyer (10:26.904)
mean, have you had someone just stare blankly at you?

Erika Taylor-Beck (10:29.533)
I've had a variety of things. you know, the role, one of the roles I used to be in, I was a vice president of a support team. And so we had, I had directors, managers, Tier 2s, know, entry-level folks. I had folks from different generations on the team. So it was a wide gamut of different personalities that I was managing and dealing with. And a variety, I could tell so many stories about just the things that had popped up. And

I've had people who just very calmly, you're right, I did that wrong, I understand where we're going, thank you, and then that was it. It was very easy. Then I've had people who I had no idea that I was doing poorly, even though we've met every week for the last six weeks and trying to work on this and that we mentioned, you might, if this doesn't improve, we'll have to move towards termination. I had no idea this was coming. Or I've had people who just started crying.

I've had people who freaked out and started yelling and pointing fingers at me or somebody else on the team. was always someone else's fault. And I've had people who just didn't say anything. They didn't even look at me. They just stared straight ahead while I talked. you know, I don't feel like I've ever handled them quote unquote poorly. Could I have handled them better? Maybe what I now is a little bit older with more experience, sure. But I think I've always had a pretty decent

emotional intelligence level to be able to handle. so if someone's crying, I will give them a minute and say like, here's a tissue. Do you need a moment? you able for us to continue? Because you still need to get it out. Just because someone cries doesn't mean like, you know what, we'll just have this conversation later. You still need to have it. But you also want to be at a place where they're receiving it and open to it. So if they're crying and their feelings in that moment, they might not be hearing what you're saying.

Rob Dwyer (12:06.018)
Mm-hmm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (12:20.961)
When I've had folks who would yell or get upset, nobody ever was ever violent or anything super egregious, but they would be upset and point fingers and I would allow them to share their thoughts. But then I always would have factual points, which leads to a point for me of documentation. If you document things along the way, even if they come up with, I don't wanna say an excuse, but an excuse at the end, well, Rob did this or he didn't do that and you didn't.

Rob Dwyer (12:40.6)
Mm-hmm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (12:47.543)
But we talked about this, this and this. And we addressed this and here's what we did and here's how we work through that. And we're still at this point. So I understand that, you know, maybe there are some other factors, but ultimately, this is why I feel confident that we can move in this direction right now. So have something to cover your ass, CYA. So just documentation, because you never want to get to a point where it's a she said, he said type of situation. It's, it's documented.

you've known about it, I've known about it, HR knows about it, now we're ready. But yes, I've had a lot of these conversations and I actually, in my office, used to have, you know those foldable screens, like the tri-fold? There used to be one in the window, because it was kind of like a fishbowl, and my team used to joke and call it my privacy screen, not a privacy, because people would often come into my office to...

Rob Dwyer (13:36.782)
you

Erika Taylor-Beck (13:38.541)
to either just share about some challenges they were having, but people cried a lot. So I got very comfortable with people's emotions, so it didn't bother me so much. But when you asked, the first thought that came in was my privacy screen. And yes, I have dealt with many emotions over my tenure as a leader.

Rob Dwyer (13:56.75)
Well, I'm glad you brought up documentation because that's actually one of the things that I wanted to talk about. I learned a phrase a long time ago, which was if it's not documented, it didn't happen. And that's exactly what you're talking about. It's a way to avoid this situation where someone's going to say, well, I didn't know or that's not what happened. When you document.

Erika Taylor-Beck (14:09.922)
Yes.

Rob Dwyer (14:25.43)
and document well every step of the way. It is always very apparent. And look, if you are a leader that has to go down a path of termination, certainly in the US, you want to have your documentation ducks in a row because there's going to be very likely an unemployment hearing at some point. you want to be able to present exactly

what happened, what you did leading up to that termination so that ultimately you can feel confident as both a leader and a company that you didn't fire someone, they fired themselves. Like they just decided they didn't want to do it. So let's dig more into the documentation piece because I feel like

Erika Taylor-Beck (15:10.147)
Mm-hmm. 100%.

Rob Dwyer (15:24.214)
and I think we've all probably seen this at some point in our careers where we see things that are in documentation that. Probably shouldn't be there and we're missing some things that should be there. So if I'm documenting, what do I, what do I need to put in that document? When we say documentation, like what does that mean? Let's say you and I just had a coaching session.

What are you going to document?

Erika Taylor-Beck (15:56.28)
would document what if you have current metrics, if there are certain metrics or KPIs that we're targeting, what where you are in compared to those. So if you need a ninety five percent, but you're at ninety percent and that's something I'm bringing up with you, I would just mention that right now you're currently at ninety. The goal is ninety five. So hopefully we'll have an action plan.

by next week I need to see you at 92 % because you don't want to set unrealistic goals. Moving at 5 % might be a really big jump. So set it so it's realistic in incremental windows because at this point then the goal is just seeing improvement. not, need you to be 100 % to where you need to be, but just I need to know you're moving in the right direction so that you will get there. So I need to see where you currently are, what the targets are. If you are not there by next week, what's the next step? And is it?

Maybe you have need more time or is it we need to take some action where maybe you need training or need to do something or is it a write up or, you know, we're moving towards a performance improvement plan or a PIP. So that's something I would include. But at the end of the documentation, because I used to keep my stuff in a OneNote file. So I met with Rob, here's the dates, here's current metrics, here's what we talked about. This is the goal for next week. This is the action item. I also want to send that to you in an email.

so that you have it that we talked about this, the goal for next week is this, if the goal is not met, here are the next steps so that you know that you might be getting written up or that we might have to talk about a performance plan. And that way, even if you don't acknowledge it, I still have a paper trail, I sent this to you, it is in your inbox somewhere, whether you read it or not. But usually, if there's anything where I need you to sign off on it or to agree to it,

I also would send that to HR and say, here's what we've talked about, especially if it is an action of you're getting a verbal warning. This is a written warning. This is your final, whatever stages you have, but just to let you know, like this is what we talked about. This is officially a written warning. Send it to you, send it to HR so they have it on file. So that way when you go back, you can see we talked on these dates. This is what we talked about. Here's where you were. Here's where I needed you to be.

Erika Taylor-Beck (18:13.059)
These are the action items that we outlined and here are the repercussions for not meeting those just as we outlined. And that way at the end, if you say, I had no idea, it's all an email. HR knows about it. Everyone knows about it. And so when they come back at the end and say, well, I want to sue you. I'm going to take this to HR. Please do. Please do. They already know about it. They would love to hear this again.

Rob Dwyer (18:35.628)
Yeah. One of the things that you talked about was the action items. And I want to talk more about that piece too, because obviously we're going to have goals. We're going to have KPIs that we want to meet. But ultimately, those goals are met through actions that we're taking, right? Some thing that we are going to do on whether we're handling calls or chats or we're in a shop.

And we're working with heavy machinery. Like every job has these to-dos that are associated with them. And to meet those numbers, we have certain actions, behaviors that we need to take that as leaders we already know will lead to those goals.

One of the things that I have seen is that the documentation all too often is centered around the things that we are not doing. But can you talk about documenting successes? Is that something that you work with with your new leaders?

Erika Taylor-Beck (19:45.998)
Yeah, because you have usually annual reviews. And so it's hard to remember what you did yesterday, let alone last week, definitely not three quarters ago when you're looking at doing your review period. So I like to document all of the stuff. And I might be more of an over-documenter than most people are. I find that most people tend to not enjoy documentation because it's tedious. And they always say it's not sexy, it's not glamorous, it's...

Rob Dwyer (20:10.818)
is.

Erika Taylor-Beck (20:13.035)
It feels like something that we already had the conversation. I have to document that we had a conversation and most people want to just trust their memory. I know that we talked about that. And again, one, helps to cover your rear end, but two, your memory can't remember everything for every single person that you talk to. So documenting, here's something that they did really well. I sent this positive kudos to them. Here's a project they took on that was not part of their day-to-day job.

and they did really well, or that somebody from a different team or unit or department gave them some positive feedback or a customer reached out. So I like to add those things as well, because then when it's time to do your reviews, and hopefully you're doing them more than annually, but if not, when you go to do your annual review, it's nice to have that list of things to look at so you don't have to think, okay, well, what did Erika do back in January?

How have things gone? And it also helps with your biases. So if you have a recency bias of kind of like the halo horns effect, whatever happened most recently, if you did something good, you kind of have this positive glow when everything else had happened, or if it's something that's negative, it has a negative kind of tint on everything that you look back on, and it's not objective anymore because that's not how our human brains work. So when you have documentation, maybe they're doing really poorly now.

Rob Dwyer (21:29.282)
Hmm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (21:35.79)
but they've been doing great all year and they're just in a rough patch or vice versa. Maybe they've struggled and now they're doing really well, but it's not a reflection of their whole year's performance. They really weren't hitting the mark. So they shouldn't be getting a five this year if they're only doing well in the last quarter. So documentation, good and bad, I think is super important, but it's, again, it's just not something that people enjoy doing, but there are so many benefits to having it.

And if you don't need it, if nothing ever happens, no one ever sues you, if you don't have to have someone challenged being terminated, then fantastic. You're going to feel like it's not really that necessary. But when somebody finally does and you think, shoot, I don't have anything that proves that we met, that we talked, that I had this conversation, even though I know I did, that's when you're like, shoot, I need to start documenting. So I would say just, it's better to do it ahead of time then, and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Rob Dwyer (22:30.976)
Yeah, one of the things that you touched on that I think aside from what you just talked about, which is the it's like insurance. You got to do it even though you go, it's never going to happen to me when it does happen to you. Trust me, you're going to want the insurance. That's your insurance. But even just those follow up meetings as a leader for me to just quickly prepare and go back and just say, OK,

Erika Taylor-Beck (22:50.466)
Yes.

Rob Dwyer (23:01.078)
A meeting with Erika, gosh, what did we talk about the last time we met? If I'm a leader and I have, let's say 10 or 15 people reporting to me that I'm meeting with on a regular basis, like that's a lot of things to get easily confused. If I'm documenting well, it's really easy for me to just quickly go review that last meeting I had with Erika and go, okay, we talked.

this, this, this. Now I know what I need to follow up on, maybe what I need to celebrate with Erika, and maybe the things that we need to think about as next steps and opportunities going forward. And it just makes me feel more prepared going into that and having a starting point, as opposed to just coming in and going, how's it going? What are you working on?

Erika Taylor-Beck (24:00.068)
It's the same project for the last seven weeks. How do you not remember? Right. It's a great way to build rapport and your relationship with your employees. I also like to document even just some personal tidbits. So if they say, my dog Sparky, write down has dog named Sparky, you know, or like my significant other and I, went, we love to go fishing on the weekend. So, Hey, how was your weekend? Did you get to go fishing? And it's just little stuff like that, that you're like, wow. They, they listened, they paid attention, they remembered. And

Rob Dwyer (24:02.765)
Right.

Rob Dwyer (24:14.766)
Mm-hmm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (24:28.193)
So all of that is super helpful, it's a great, like you said, a great starting point to the meeting to, hey, last week we talked about, you you were really interested in this project or taking on some new opportunity. I think I have something that's coming up and, you know, are you still interested? And it's a great way for leaders to kind of cross pollinate in a way where if you are hearing about things in other meetings, you say, I remember talking to Rob about.

something, let me look at my notes and yeah, he actually is interested in doing this and then you can recommend him for a project with a different team. And it's a really great way to get people exposure. It's a great way to build connection and to have that trust in that human aspect, which makes people feel more engaged at work because they don't feel like I'm just here. I'm employee number 36. Like I'm here, I'm Erika and you know about my dogs and you know about that. love to do this and

that I'm really interested in doing this type of project or that I really don't like this type of project. So if it comes up, you know not to ask me. Like that matters to people when they feel like they are an actual individual human being.

Rob Dwyer (25:35.712)
Yeah, absolutely. That humanizing people and letting them know that you care about their success and who they are as a person is a huge motivator for people who are coming in to do their jobs. When they look at you as more than just the supervisor but someone that cares about them, that just makes a huge difference. So aside from documentation and those

Education skills. Let's talk about what are some of the other gaps that you typically see when it comes to I'm a frontline person doing the job and now I've moved into a supervisory

What skills am I missing?

Erika Taylor-Beck (26:23.043)
There's a lot to be honest. you know, one is setting expectations and then holding people accountable. As an individual moving from like a bud to a boss situation where we were peers but now I'm your manager, it might be hard to say you're not meeting expectations because we were friends a week ago and now I'm your manager and so it's difficult for me to do that. So setting expectations, holding people to those and then following through. So again, if you...

Rob Dwyer (26:24.654)
and

Rob Dwyer (26:29.953)
Mmm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (26:52.097)
someone isn't meeting expectations and you're not having that conversation at some point, you might have to fire them. And that, as we talked about, is already a challenge because you don't have documentation and you haven't talked to them. But also the people around them are seeing that they're not doing the same level of work that I'm being asked to do, but nothing bad is happening. They're not getting in trouble. They're not getting fired. What's the motivation for me to meet expectations if nothing bad happens when we don't? And so now you have this

culture of mediocrity and a of a toxic mindset because you're not holding people accountable. So that's one thing. But delegation, that's also really hard for folks to do. That was something that I struggled with even later in my career because I was such a doer. And so no longer being the doer, but giving it to other people and allowing them to struggle through it. you try to give them safe places to fail. And you don't want to come in and say, no, no, that's not how you do that because they're never going to learn.

Rob Dwyer (27:31.97)
Hmm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (27:51.278)
How do you delegate? What do you delegate? To whom do you delegate? Those are all things that you're not really taught as an individual that steps into management. And it's a game changer because it helps to develop your employees, but it also takes things off your plate. And in a sense, yes, you still have to oversee and you're still responsible, accountable for that work getting done, but you're not the one actually doing it anymore. So you're there as support to do a final approval before it gets turned in. And so we don't get taught how to delegate.

We're not taught how to give feedback. We're not taught how to manage hybrid teams. If you have employees who are working remotely and are people in the office, there tends to be some biases there. People who are in the office, like with me, I see them every day and I think that they're stronger workers, that they're more dedicated because I see them. Even though my employees at home might be working just as hard, if not harder, there's just that out of sight, out of mind. And so how do I keep the culture built up for everybody, even if you're not

physically in the same place. And all of those things are stuff that we're not taught. It's just go manage your team. And so what does that look like? There's like 15 different skills that you would need to be able to do that effectively that we might just be given little tip sheets. Here's how to do it, but that's hard to actually implement.

Rob Dwyer (29:00.578)
No.

Rob Dwyer (29:12.566)
Yeah. Do you have a strategy that you pursue when it comes to identifying things to delegate? Like, what does that look like when I'm thinking about what's on my plate as a leader and trying to determine what might make sense to delegate to someone else?

Erika Taylor-Beck (29:31.172)
I do actually. it could be, is it something that's just like a one time thing that yeah, it's going to be quicker? Because one of the biggest things that we say is, it's just faster for me to do it than it is for you to teach someone else how to do it. And that's true if it's if it's just one time that it's due. So I'm just going to knock it out and be done with it. But if it's a recurring task, in the long run, it's going to be easier for me to show somebody else how to do it, or they can then manage it versus me having to do it every month, every quarter. it

It's one of those, is it something that's one time or is it a recurring task? Is it something that requires my level of experience or my role? Do I have to be a director or VP to do it because then I can't really assign it to someone else? Is it just another task that anybody could do as long as I sign off on it when it's done? That would be something that I would delegate. So that's kind of how I look at it, but I also then consider the people that I'm delegating to. And what we often do is I have

Rob's the best person on my team. He's just a go-getter and likes to get stuff done. So I have this project and I'm going to ask Rob, even though Rob doesn't have the bandwidth, Rob doesn't have the interest in it, but he's my go-to. And I feel like that's something that's like a slump that we tend to fall into sometimes is that we are just going to give it to the same people over and over again, even though we have other people that we could. So I often try to ask folks if they're interested in something, is it something that you want to learn?

to do. Maybe we talked about your development goals. I would love to be able to do X, Y, and Z better. I've got this task. Let me show you how to do it. That way you can be better. So are they a SME at this already, an expert that I can delegate it to, or is it something that they want to learn that I can give as a learning opportunity? Do they have the bandwidth for it? If they're struggling already with their current job, extra projects is probably not the right thing to be assigning at the moment.

So let them focus on just meeting expectations and give it to somebody who is seeking opportunity. So there are, it seems like a lot of things to consider, but I have it broken out kind of into a framework and a checklist of kind of like six tasks to do and to consider before you delegate something. And I also have assessments in there too, to figure out delegation readiness. Is your team ready to be delegated to and are you ready to delegate something?

Rob Dwyer (31:49.646)
Mm.

Erika Taylor-Beck (31:50.177)
And so that way it helps if there are gray areas around like, should I give this up? Should I not give it up? You know, try to help with that to make it a little bit easier.

Rob Dwyer (31:59.436)
Yeah, that's fantastic. One of the things that you brought up, it's great if you're the person that is like the go-to, but that is absolutely a trap. And it creates a very weak link on your team if that person leaves or gets promoted. Like all of a sudden, if I...

Erika Taylor-Beck (32:18.498)
Yes.

Rob Dwyer (32:24.59)
put all of my efforts into developing a particular individual or maybe there's a couple of people that are my favorites. Number one, that's not good culturally because as you mentioned, right, other people are going to see how you do that as a leader. But it also creates a potentially a big gap in my team if those people aren't there anymore. And now all of a sudden I've got

Erika Taylor-Beck (32:35.235)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (32:54.262)
rest of my team, which I haven't been putting any effort into, into developing. And so as a leader, I'm going to have to start from scratch. Either all of that's going to come back onto my plate or it's just not going to get done. And neither of those are good things. So being able to, I actually just put this quote on, on a piece of collateral, right? It's the, the paraphrasing is don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

that's true of your team delegation. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Sancho Panza from Don Quixote actually is where that quote comes from. Yeah. I didn't know that until today. I looked it up. So

Erika Taylor-Beck (33:24.589)
Yep.

Erika Taylor-Beck (33:36.033)
Really? I did not know that.

That's a great little fun fact.

Rob Dwyer (33:44.246)
Yeah, it is. It is absolutely a fun fact. okay, we've got delegation, we've got documentation, we've got building communication skills and kind of trust and focusing on emotional intelligence. All really incredible things. And then you talked about setting expectations and holding people accountable.

I think one of the things that we've kind of touched on, but I know is central to just like who you are. And that is developing skills in other people outside of kind of these things, but just the core skills of doing the job. If I'm just really good at doing the job, that doesn't mean I know how to help other people do the job really well, does it?

Erika Taylor-Beck (34:40.011)
Not really. know. so a lot of it, I got communication pieces, understanding other people and what motivates them. And that's that emotional intelligence aspect as well, because one of the, there's five components to emotional intelligence. And one of them is motivation. And so it helps to know what motivates you, but also what motivates other people and understanding just as a human being, individuals.

What are their skills? And that's where it's so important to understand them and get to know them and ask, you know, get sparky and fishing because it helps them to start feeling comfortable sharing with you so that you understand they love this type of project. They are really good at this type of thing. They struggle with this type of thing. So here are ways that I can help them to improve. But every, it's not a one size fits all. And it's, it's a really a one size fits one almost because you have to.

You don't have to tailor your style to every single individual because it's impossible, but you do have to tweak it a little bit to understand the differences of your employees to meet them where they are. You can say, are the expectations. I'm not going to manage you the same way that I manage Sally because she needs very clear, direct feedback. She wants just a list and a quick one-on-one. You might need a little bit more coaching and handholding. I understand that and I'm okay with that.

And so I know that maybe our one-on-ones need to be a little bit longer because it takes a little bit more. Like for me, I'm I would say a slow processor, cause that's not, I'm not a slow processor, but I just need a minute to digest things. And so some people like to respond immediately. I want to think about it a minute. So for me, if you were to give me something in a meeting and say, okay, this is a really big decision. What do you think? Like I can make a decision, but I would feel better if I had a chance to think about it and really feel, okay, this is.

through the things, this is where I want to go. And I'm not going to take six days to do it, but I just, I don't like to be rushed in that sense. And so some people are the same. And so you might need a little bit more time for them to, to digest what you're saying and to be able to participate effectively. And some it's different. So understanding who you're working with and how they operate and finding a common middle ground. Because if they're very different than how you are, you might just be

Erika Taylor-Beck (36:57.475)
passing each other, so trying to find, here's how I like to communicate, how do you like to communicate? What are you looking for so that I can be the leader that you need me to be so that I can help you succeed? Because ultimately, and this is a big shift for new managers, your success is now my success. It's not about my success anymore and what I can do, it's how I help you. And so now everything I want to do is based around how I manage other people. And so it becomes so much more crucial

to know and understand and to respect other people. So that's, I think, one of the big, the big pieces is just understanding and being open to those differences and learning how to navigate and pivot as needed to be able to, to give them that feedback, to coach them in a way that they're going to respond well to. Because if I just say, your numbers are bad, I need you to be better. For Sally, that might be enough. She said, my gosh, Erika had to talk to me at all. Like I'm, next week, I'm going to be back where I need to be.

And somebody else might think, my gosh, I'm just going to get fired. And they spiral versus being motivated by that. That's something that now they're afraid they need to quit. so what works better for you? How can I deliver that in a way that's going to motivate you to do better or to ask for help or to, to seek opportunity versus feeling like you've just gotten yelled at. So that was a really long answer, but hopefully that kind of clarifies where I was getting at.

Rob Dwyer (38:01.294)
.

Rob Dwyer (38:22.614)
Yeah, absolutely. love that you bring up communication styles. think for leaders, some might think that it's really important to be consistent. And in some ways it is incredibly important to be consistent. But that doesn't mean that how we coach and develop people is the same because

what they need, what drives them, what they will respond to is different from person to person. So I actually have to be flexible, but intentional at the same time when I am working with people to develop them. And I think that is a dichotomy that can be confusing as a leader. Well, everybody's got the same standards. Shouldn't I just?

approach everyone the same way. And really the answer is no, not necessarily.

Erika Taylor-Beck (39:18.659)
And it's hard because especially if you are again coming from being an individual or if you're new to the team and you don't know how to do that job, you know, here's what we're shooting for. Here are the targets and just going to try to push everybody towards those targets. But yes, like you're saying, we are all being held to the same expectations, but how I motivate you to get there is going to be different. And how you like to communicate and how you need to be supported will be different. And some people

They want to have a one-on-one every day because they just want that extra hand holding. And I don't want to say micromanage, but they almost need to be micromanaged to be told how to do everything. And then some want very little hands-on interaction. Just point me in the direction and let me go. understanding that and kind of respecting that gives them that space to be what they need and how they need to do it to get there. And then ultimately they're going to get where you need them to go. And if they can't, that then it comes down to, is this the right role for you?

And not necessarily that you to fire you, but maybe we should be looking at having you apply to something different or doing something that is more aligned with your skills because everybody has natural strengths. Maybe this job is not a natural strength for you. And no matter how much time and effort we put into it or you put into it, it's just not going to be where you will thrive. That's okay. It's not a failure. It's just not the right fit. So understanding that too, and almost that discernment of

What point do we say enough is enough and try to find you something that's more aligned with who you are versus just feeding into the same amount of every week we're investing, investing, investing, and we're not able to spend time with our other higher performers and the folks that need it because we're working on the same thing. And so it's hard to do that. It's not something that is taught and it's not something that comes natural to people to have to make those tough decisions.

Rob Dwyer (41:14.55)
Yeah, for sure. So we started out this conversation talking about how. That theory piece that classroom piece is just not enough and often in organizations at best. That's what we get. So let's talk about the mechanics of what comes after that. Let's say that. I reach out to you, Erika, and I'm like, hey, I need I need some help.

I imagine there is some of that kind of bootcampish, right? Coursework and working with you, but what does that look like six months from now? How do you approach that?

Erika Taylor-Beck (41:59.556)
Sure. So one thing I do, it's not really, again, a one size fits all. So I have different courses on my website. So maybe you say, I'm really great at delegating, but I'm not good at managing a hybrid team. So I have a course for just that. So you can go ahead and take that versus I'm going to buy all of your things and I only need two of them. So I try to have it where you can pick and choose what you need. But if you want to do coaching, one thing I do is I have an assessment to measure emotional intelligence and what of those five factors where you are doing really well and

Maybe which ones need some more work, because sometimes that can be a key thing of I'm just not getting with people, like we're just not connecting. And maybe it's because your social skills are not as high as maybe your emotional self-awareness. So understanding kind of those gaps, but also just talking through what problems are you having? What challenges are you running into? Because it might not be, I know that I need this specific skill. It's, I stress every night before I go to bed that I'm doing a terrible job.

And every day I, my manager pings me on teams, I'm afraid I'm going to get fired. Or I have not talked to this employee for three weeks because I don't know how to approach this issue with them. So I'm just avoiding it. And so these different emotions and things that pop up, understanding that is, okay, maybe you're having a hard time dealing with, with conflict or giving feedback and we can focus on that. So I have courses, but I also offer coaching to do that one-on-one kind of follow through and check in.

but I'm just really passionate about this stuff. So if someone reaches out to me six months from now to take a course and the courses I have built, they have assessments and things in them as well to determine what you've learned and if you're applying it. But I also talk about different ways to do things. So if I In my giving feedback course, it's about setting expectations and wanting people accountable, but it's not just here's how you do it one way. It's here are several different feedback models that you can try.

which one works best for you and then stick with that one. Because if I say here's the only way to do feedback and you don't feel comfortable with that, you might just not do it. So I try to create different options. So here's the information that you need, but here are different ways that you can absorb it and implement it and try to do it so that it feels natural and comfortable for you, which is where the authentic part of Authentic Foundations comes in. As I want you to lead in a way that feels authentic to who you are.

Erika Taylor-Beck (44:26.241)
And then if you have questions or need something, like ping me, reach out. If you have, you know, just something that I want to ask a question or like, this isn't going well. You know, I've been trying this and I would love some, just to be a sounding board. Can you, can I practice with you? And that's something I offer too, is just if you want me to be a sounding board or to role play so that you can practice the conversation before you have it, like I'm here for that too. I just, really want to see better workplaces and actually our

podcast talk years ago was about mental health in the workplace. And that's still something that's really important. So I would love to see managers who have better mental health because they feel like they have the tools they need and then are providing the culture that other people feel like they are thriving in. And so I just want to help is what it comes down to. And so in six months from now, if you still have questions or need something, like I'm still available. It's not a, sorry, you're done.

my hands of you. I want to help because I want to see it improve.

Rob Dwyer (45:25.334)
I was really expecting you to be like, no, I'm not. I'm not helping after you buy my stuff. thought, yeah, exactly. I thought you were going to throw up deuces and like Erika was like, yeah.

Erika Taylor-Beck (45:30.497)
Yeah, you don't even get support.

turn off my camera and just walk, yeah. I'm like, you bought the course, you don't even get, you get nothing.

Rob Dwyer (45:41.762)
I think you're going at this influencer thing wrong. think that's actually the strategy, right? You just recruit people to buy, buy, buy, and then you say, bye, bye, bye. That's how it goes, right? I think.

Erika Taylor-Beck (45:44.707)
Probably. Probably.

Erika Taylor-Beck (45:52.66)
Hahaha!

That's probably why I'm doing it wrong, because I probably care too much. I need to start caring less and just be like, buy my course, and then just walk out.

Rob Dwyer (46:00.354)
Ha ha ha.

OK, I am not going to advocate for that. what I will advocate for is that, I mean, if you just want to learn about what Erika has to offer, go to her website, check it out. But even more, talk to Erika. That's probably the easiest thing to do, to help guide through some of these things.

Erika Taylor-Beck (46:08.141)
same.

Erika Taylor-Beck (46:27.459)
Please.

Erika Taylor-Beck (46:33.315)
Yeah, absolutely. I I offer a free leadership strategy session. So if you have questions like we talked about a moment ago, if you just here's what I'm dealing with, here's what questions I have. I would love to talk to you and see do I have what you need? Can I provide the support and the resources that you need? Because I will be very, very honest with you. I was telling my before we recorded, I'm not the best salesperson because I just want to help. But if I'm not the right fit for you.

I will tell you that I don't want your money for the sake of just getting your money. I want to help you improve. And so if you call with an issue that feels like it's not something that I'm able to support you with, then I will try to point you in a direction of somebody because I know other coaches and other people who might be a better in alignment with you for what you're trying to accomplish. But I have a free 30 minute window chat, figure out what you've got going on and what you need.

See if I'm a good fit for you and if you feel aligned and if so fantastic and if not, that's okay too. More power to you. I hope things work out either way.

Rob Dwyer (47:37.088)
Yeah, that price is right. Free 90 free is always good. So go down to the show notes. Know what to do. Find that link. Connect with Erika on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for joining the show today. It's been great to catch up with you.

Erika Taylor-Beck (47:40.365)
Yes.

Erika Taylor-Beck (47:55.095)
Yeah, thanks for having me. It was great to be back.