The medical drama, New Amsterdam, features Dr. Max Goodwin as the new Medical Director for one America’s oldest public hospitals. Max strives to do something that seems oddly revolutionary – put patients first. Among his first acts to impact patient experience are to eliminate the Emergency Department waiting room and to bring healthy food into the hospital. Throughout the series, he attempts radical changes to help patients have better experiences in the hospital and better health outcomes.
But improving patient experience doesn’t have to start with firing entire departments or upending every single process in a hospital. In fact, it begins with simply with how patients are treated by healthcare professionals. Communication and empathy are building blocks to a better patient experience, says Dr. Rachel Hitt. And as the Medical Director of Patient Experience for the Tufts Medical Integrated Network, she’s championing a different approach to patient relationships.
We discuss:
- Why the relationship with patients is crucial in medicine
- How business practices often create barriers in healthcare
- How technology can both help and hinder patient interactions
- The essential skill to delivering difficult news
- How active listening can improve patient outcomes
Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn
Music courtesy of Big Red Horse
Transcript
Rob Dwyer (00:02.192)
Welcome back everyone to another episode of Next In Queue. Today I have got a very special guest, Dr. Rachel Hitt. Dr. Hitt, how are you today?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (00:14.164)
I'm great, thanks. Thanks for having me.
Rob Dwyer (00:17.83)
So give us a little bit of information about what you do today and then we'll get into kind of the topic at hand. But you've got a rather long and prestigious title. Tell us what that is.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (00:34.438)
Well, I am the Medical Director of Patient Experience for the Tufts Medical Integrated Network, which is the Tufts Ambulatory Healthcare System here in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm also a clinician, the Chief of Breast Imaging for Tufts Medical Center in Boston as well.
Rob Dwyer (00:52.348)
See that is it's it's a lot. Do you struggle to introduce yourself on a regular basis? Are you like there's a lot going on here? It's way too long. Maybe we get.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (01:02.881)
Yeah, the title is too long. So I usually say, well, know, Chief of Breast Imaging and Medical Director of Patient Experience for the Tufts Health System Ambulatory. So it's just, know, healthcare is always changing, always new names, things of that mergers, things of that sort.
Rob Dwyer (01:19.344)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I brought you to the show today to talk about patient experience. And so that's what we're going to get into. But before we do that, when we talked earlier, you told me that originally you didn't want to be a doctor. Tell us about how you ended up here.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (01:45.107)
my gosh, I can't believe you remember that. Well, yeah, I think, know, at least in my family, being a doctor was probably, they thought I should be a doctor since I was born, that kind of thing. Like, no, that's not necessarily what I wanna do. I wanna make sure I chart my own path. And so I actually started out creative writing and studio art in college. And then I happened to take a human biology course.
fell in love with it like just human physiology and the whole thing I loved it, but I still wasn't convinced I should be a physician I certainly didn't tell my parents I loved it and And then I tried a whole bunch of other careers or things I tried things out I made sure it was what I wanted to do I I taught which I loved to do in the high school I did some basic science. I did some administrative stuff supporting my college as an admissions officer. I loved that as well. And then
I of realized, no, I kept trying, you know, I kept doing experiences where I'd be working with doctors. So I worked on an island in Maine with a doctor one January term during college, another time in the summer, and I did as many internships and exposures I could, and I just fell in love with and read books. And William Carlos Williams inspired me and John McPhee inspired me to do medicine. So it sort of worked out and then also I was also really interested in public health.
So I was fortunate enough to combine a master's in public health from the University of Michigan with my medical degree from Harvard. They allowed me to exchange the credits. So I got really lucky and it all worked out. Things always work out the way they're supposed to.
Rob Dwyer (03:23.184)
Yeah. Do you have a favorite William Carlos Williams poem about medicine that particularly resonates with you?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (03:32.488)
I am not a poetry girl. am a fiction, nonfiction novel. He's got, so Heirs of General Practice was my Jeff McPhee one and then Doctor Stories was his book that really inspired me. And in fact, that's the one I kept on my desk all through medical school. It was really valuable.
Rob Dwyer (03:45.851)
Mmm.
Rob Dwyer (03:53.862)
I don't know that one, but I'm gonna have to check it out.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (03:56.938)
Well, I don't I'm sorry, I don't know the poems as well. I suppose I'm a very concrete thinker. And poems just I don't quite get maybe that's why I switched to medicine. That's probably that.
Rob Dwyer (04:07.161)
Hmm, very interesting.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (04:14.654)
I figured out where my strengths were.
Rob Dwyer (04:17.372)
That is funny. Well, let's dig into patient experience. I think all of us, once we reach a certain age, we've been to the doctor's office, maybe we've been to an ER or we've been to a specialist. And so we've all got these experiences. Why is patient experience like what drew you to
patient experience? Obviously, you've got a clinical specialty in breast imaging radiology, but what about the patient experiences important to you?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (04:57.503)
Well, what's always drawn me in part to medicine wasn't just the histology, pathophysiology. It was taking care of patients. This is a really sacred job that we have and the kind of relationship you can have with patients. And I think watching both my grandfather and my father were physicians. My grandfather was an OB -GYN in a small town in Maine and really delivered everyone in town.
My dad was a pulmonologist internist at a large academic institution in urban setting. But they always, you so I always went with them on calls and well, on same calls, but I'd be walking with them through the hospital or just hearing about their patients. And they always had such a nice relationship with their patients. And it was always so important to them. And for example, my dad would have patients come into his office and across the desk, you would do your history. You would find out about your family. You'd tell them what your aches and pains were.
And then you would get up as a patient and go into the exam room, and then that's where the physical exam happened. I just heard stories, I just loved hearing about things, and I think just hearing it rubbed off on me, and how they treated people even when we were just walking around the hospital. I think it really came across that the patients were so, it's the people, it's not just the medicine, it's the people behind the medicine. And then in my position as a breast imager, often I'm,
changing people's lives forever. And it's not lost on me. And I think it's really important to be there for people to use our knowledge to help them. And even if it's not a cancer, people are scared. They all come in, they all think they have cancer and how to navigate those waters. And it's just, I don't have many skill sets, but this is one of my skill sets. And so I'm happy to share it.
Rob Dwyer (06:44.956)
Well, I think you're probably being very humble about saying that you don't have many skills. I imagine that is not true. let's talk about some of the barriers to delivering great patient experience. Certainly you mentioned one, and that is maybe that just the patients expect the worst sometimes, but.
I don't think that's the biggest barrier. What are some of the things that you see that are big obstacles that you're trying to overcome?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (07:18.654)
That's a great question. I think I would love to practice medicine the way my dad and my grandfather practiced. But the business of healthcare is completely different from when they were in practice. So I think there's a lot of, one, you have volume. There more people in this world. Granted there are lots of doctors, but are there enough doctors? Are there enough clinicians? So you've got nurse practitioners, PAs, it's growing, everything's growing. Are we able to train enough physicians?
Not necessarily that we keep hearing about what's coming ahead and how we have to prepare for it. But Just on the day -to -day basis, the business of healthcare really gets in the way. You're constantly being asked to produce more at a faster time and a faster rate. I think the element of the computer, although it helps us in many ways, it can slow us down in other ways, and it detracts from the personal interactions. As you know, in a primary care setting, the doctor might be entering things in the computer, not being able to look at you and listen to you.
it's just normal common sense. Like how do you interact with the patient? We're having a conversation more or less face to face granted through a computer. But that makes a big difference versus me looking at the computer focusing on that with the extra added pressure having to see a lot of patients. So I think and then there's a administrative burden, all the charting all the the prior authorizations, people trying to hit their deductible, their insurance, so there are a lot of
elements to it that make it very difficult. Patients not getting their care because they don't have the insurance. My mind is just wandering, but I think there are a lot of manmade barriers to the normal natural connection that people have when you're trying to take care of each other.
Rob Dwyer (09:02.778)
Yeah, absolutely. think many of us have had that experience where we don't feel like, maybe we don't even feel like we're being listened to in a doctor's office because there is that need to document, to look up information. And so there's less of that, just active listening and more, I'm, I'm
digging into some other things while I'm listening. And that certainly, you know, when I think about a lot of times on this show, we're talking to people who are in other types of service, right? Not healthcare, but if, if you're calling me about your loss package and I don't sound like I'm paying attention, right? You're probably going to get a little upset about that. And the stakes are wildly different when we're talking about
a loss package versus something that's impacting my personal health or my child's health or my spouse's health or my parents' health. So I can understand why that is a huge, huge challenge.
Are you finding that you mentioned technology can be a barrier? Do you see technology maybe stepping in to kind of help some of those things? So one of the things that I'm thinking about is the note taking aspect. Are there ways that we could automate that so that I can, as a doctor, as a physician, just pay attention to my patient?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (10:43.505)
Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. But first of all, I think all physicians still want to have that relationship with their patients, or most, I'd say the majority, and that's what brought us into medicine. And not just physician, clinicians. I think that's the goal. I think there were just so many distractions and access and things of that sort. But yes, in terms of there's roles for AI, there's no taking things where they can listen to the ambient sound and you're actually sort of pick up.
what's important, what's not. I don't use that in my settings, that's different for what I do. But I've heard about that in other situations. Again, there's a cost involved with all of this. And that's I can't even speak to that. And now financial institutions are having a lot of issues. Healthcare institutions are having financial issues, excuse me. So how to get that software that we can pay for there are lot of needs of these institutions, where do you prioritize?
Rob Dwyer (11:22.0)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (11:40.265)
But yeah, think we can certainly, I'm not trying to sound like I don't enjoy computers. There's definitely a need for computers. access, you can see what's going on everywhere. It really helps a lot. But at same time, how can we utilize the computers to our advantage? To use them the best way rather than a disadvantage.
Rob Dwyer (11:55.58)
Mm -hmm.
Rob Dwyer (11:59.568)
Yeah, I mean, we hear too about these hacks of healthcare systems. And that's another place where I think computers, while they provide great advantages, they also open up the healthcare system to some risks. And I don't know that there's a good way to fix that, right? I don't think we're ever going back to just putting everything on paper, but it does create
an additional barrier when, when, potentially I need to go see my, provider and they can't access my medical records. That's a challenge that I don't know that, the system has, has confronted or created solutions for. you have any, any thoughts on that?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (12:52.393)
Well, in my world of imaging, are actually pretty good about getting outside images. It can take some time. There's a lot of computer buttons that are hard that you need to push and things that people get to talk to. But you can eventually get them, not always, but sometimes. So it is a challenge. But I always tell patients, if you go from one place to another, bring your record with you. Bring your images with you.
so that you can have that information. So it might be hard for an institution to it. have to sign your report and then just getting information can be hard. Take the ownership of bringing stuff with you and then providing that. And you just have to.
Rob Dwyer (13:33.884)
Yeah, that's great advice. So while we're on the subject of technology, I actually saw a recent post on LinkedIn actually just this week. it made me think of you. And I wanted to bring it up. And one of the things that we're seeing is there are all kinds of apps where I can access my patient records. And so if I've got test results or
even interactions with my physicians, I can have that inside an app. But I saw someone post about an app that they use to check in when they go to their, this is a primary care group and it has ads in it. Yeah. And so the ads, one of the ads, she detailed two ads. One of the ads was for
Dr. Rachel Hitt (14:23.226)
Really.
Rob Dwyer (14:31.704)
a different brand of medication for a similar condition, a medication that she was already on. And the other one was for a find a doctor website. And she questioned whether she should be finding a doctor. But I wonder what your thoughts are. You mentioned financial challenges, right? So I know that every business is always trying to think about how do we generate more revenue to balance the books? What are your thoughts on that kind of
Dr. Rachel Hitt (14:41.189)
Really.
Rob Dwyer (15:01.446)
way about monetizing.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (15:04.71)
Maybe I'm a purist. And on first glance without knowing all the numbers, things behind it. That's not how I would want to conduct business for myself. I feel like you have to stay sort of neutral. We are providing a healthcare service and I think it's important to keep that. So nobody has even even if it has nothing to do with how you treat a patient, we don't want any sense of impropriety, or any sense of undue influence. So I think it's really important.
Rob Dwyer (15:09.383)
Yeah.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (15:34.083)
to just stay very neutral, stick to the business. It's you and the patient and that should be all that's visualized in that website. That's just my feel.
Rob Dwyer (15:43.152)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm with you. Call us whatever you will call us, but I am with you. And by the way, for anyone who might be listening, considering that as a strategy, let me tell you the person who posted that was very upset about it. As she said, irrationally angry about it. I think it was probably.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (16:04.613)
And you don't want to patient. That's never the goal. That's never the goal.
Rob Dwyer (16:09.074)
So let's talk about delivering bad news because I do think that that is maybe one of the most impactful parts of patient experience. Not necessarily bad news, but challenging news. Where do you... Just tell me in general what your thoughts are about
Dr. Rachel Hitt (16:35.43)
Well, you touched upon it earlier in our conversation about active listening. And I think these are skill sets that we can train each other. Clinicians can train each other how to do it. And also we can use it for anyone who touches the patient on the patient journey, the front desk, environmental services, food industry, food aspect of it. also, so there's three parts. And I learned these skills from the Academy of Communication and Healthcare.
One is sort of establishing a relationship, creating rapport. And your smile is your superpower. And it really, we're humans, we're designed to appreciate people's smile. It makes us, it's warm. So just smile. Even during the pandemic when we had behind masks, you can tell when someone's smiling and when they're not smiling. Talk to them, just say hello, just acknowledge them. Basic common interactions is so important, showing that you care. And then, and that takes seconds.
Rob Dwyer (17:22.002)
Mm -hmm.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (17:33.318)
Really, it doesn't take long. make as humans, make judgments about people within the first 30 seconds. Are they grumpy? Are they helpful? Are they friendly? Are they going to not be interested in what I'm saying? And then I, and so I do teach clinicians how to do this. The act of listening is how to sort of elicit their needs, elicit their list, find out what's important to them without interrupting and just without going down rabbit holes, getting those things and then.
negotiating the agenda with them, figuring out what's important to them, what's important to you, making sure you're both on the same page. And then after you've done your exam or whatever it is, how you communicate that information to people. So to make sure that they understand, meet them at a level where they are. So in terms of difficult conversations, I will never use the word cancer unless a patient uses the word cancer first.
And I try to show them support that I'm with them because there's a way I could say, know, Mrs. Jones, there's something that where you're feeling I see that's worrisome. I want to do a biopsy. We're going to schedule that for you today. I'll let your doctor know. OK. And then sort of walk out. And that's not effective versus where I could break it down. So, know, it's a perfect when I feel it's appropriate. I could touch her like depending on the situation. Like you should have an ultrasound room to say, Mrs. Jones, what your.
know what you felt, I actually see something, I'm a little worried about it. And then you have the power of the pause, let that sit because I just threw a bombshell on her. I just changed her life. She's really thinking the worst situation. And then I can just I can let her respond to me and then I can respond to what she's saying. And then she's saying, Have you ever had a biopsy before a breast biopsy before? No, I haven't. I'm really nervous about it. I understand that I respond and support her say I understand that I figure out what her
Rob Dwyer (19:06.533)
Hmm.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (19:27.064)
Concerns are and I can relate to that at the same time I am getting the information out that I need to have this done but I'm figuring out what concerns her the most and I'm answering her questions and surprisingly When I tell people I'm worried about something a lot of times, you know, they're worried about things I wouldn't be worried wouldn't think to be worried about what about the numbing medication? Am I gonna get a lot of numbing because they're they're processing where they are and I just have to meet them
And tell them and I will be as honest as I can be if they ask me a question if they say if it's cancer I'll tell them I'm actually a little worried it could be a cancer, but I'll say I hope I'm wrong enough I'm wrong. You can be really mad at me So there there are ways you can do it And and then if someone has cancer and they're going through you say, know We're here to take care of you because that's really what we are here to do We're partnering and I think that's what people are just looking for from everybody support and partnership
And I have the medical knowledge, but also I'm a person. I know what I would want. And I think I'm just trying to give that to patients as well. And this is what I'm trying to teach other people.
Rob Dwyer (20:35.898)
You hit on three, I think, really critical things there that I want to touch on a little bit. The first one is word choice really matters. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (20:51.702)
Exactly. So fundamentally, I'm thinking a couple of things. In my situation talking about cancer, I never use the word cancer unless I bring up such a scary word. But then I have to figure out
Third level understanding, do I need to bring in an interpreter? What do they know about health literacy? I don't want to talk jargon. You want to keep it pretty simple. Even when I'm explaining these kinds of things to doctors, I'll say to them, I know you're a doctor, but if it's okay with you, I'm going to treat you like a patient, because that's how I want to be treated. I don't expect them to know about breast imaging, if they're a nephrologist or a cardiologist.
Rob Dwyer (21:32.725)
Mm
Dr. Rachel Hitt (21:34.946)
And I certainly don't expect them to be paying attention if I've just told them there's something I'm worried about. So I bring it down to a really basic, try to use non -jargon. So if I say something's benign, I immediately follow up, not cancer. Because I don't expect people to know what benign is. And it's just that idea of word choice in terms of meeting them at their level and explaining to them in a way they understand. also, in a give
power of the pause and to ask questions and respond and then direct the conversation to where it needs to be. So what we call arch loops, ask, respond and tell.
Rob Dwyer (22:14.8)
love that. One of the other three items that you touched on was getting the whole team on board, right? Our experience is not simply with our physician. so that communication in order for the entire team to respond similarly or we're in an empathetic way.
to communicate effectively with all the members of my team. Can you talk about that and maybe some of the challenges that are involved with that?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (22:52.524)
Yeah, it's really hard. Sometimes you're in a really high stakes situation. There's a lot of pressure on you. There's a lot of volume. You have very high expectations for yourself. You very high expectations for your team and how to be supportive of them as well. So that when let's say the front desk person can be as kind and friendly with them as they are with each other, with other people. So how to do that. So I heard this training, this active listings also for
that group as well. And I think everyone, I mean, myself included, there are always ways to improve, you know, you're always hardest on the ones you love. And so just that acknowledging and understanding the emotions that come at work and, just appreciating that and doing these skill sets with each other. So we can't take care of our patients unless we take care of each other. And we need to understand that as a healthcare system. And that's that's a priority.
Rob Dwyer (23:30.651)
Mm -hmm.
Rob Dwyer (23:53.104)
The third thing that has come up multiple times is just this idea of empathy and responding with empathy. And I hear you talk about this when almost in everything that you talk about in interactions with the patients. Can you talk more about that and how critical that piece is?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (24:00.021)
Mm.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (24:19.613)
I that before we go to medical school or training to be a clinician or whatever we do, we have that, know what it's like to be the patient. We know what it's like to be the caregiver of the patient, have a loved one who is a patient. And then you go through training and I kind of feel like you lose a little bit of that empathy. think schools now are trying very hard to remind people why you went into it,
You you're trying to get through your day. You've got a lot to do on your to -do list. You have a lot of volume. You've got a lot to do. And you're trying to get it through end of the day. it's that trying to remember what's behind that work that you're doing, that constant thing. And I think in the just the busyness of the day, that can get lost. So if we can take time for ourselves, little reminders. And I think every time a patient, a doctor becomes a patient again,
It's a great reminder. And so how do we recreate that? How do we remind people of that? And again, it's just what would you want? This is, again, common sense. What would you want? What would you want your loved one to want to have? And so how to explain that to them and remind them how to do gentle reminders of that. Because we get busy in our day trying to get through it.
Rob Dwyer (25:34.094)
Absolutely. And I think a lot of us can empathize with that feeling because we've all been in situations where we are kind of going through the motions because we've got things to get done. it absolutely, number one can make someone feel like they're not heard or they're not valued. And that's not great for experience, but it can
also lead to missing things and creating a moment where I've got to come back. Can you talk about how spending a little bit more time upfront can save time on the back?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (26:22.908)
Exactly. So ultimately, I think if you do this efficiently, you're you're actually reducing the amount of time it takes to interact with the patient because you're extracting much more information in a shorter amount of time. So for example, if I start asking a patient when I'm trying to elicit the list of things that's going on with them, I'll find out what's going on. If it's something that I can't help with, I'll tell them who to talk with. But in that conversation, as they're talking about things, I will find out information.
that I didn't know about that's really relevant. For example, their sister and their mother had breast cancer. So the strong family history, I didn't know about that. But that's really important so I can make sure they get a good life, elevated, can figure out their lifetime risk of breast cancer. So you're gonna get nuggets the more you talk to them. And it's funny, people, if you ask people how long do you think a patient will talk until they stop talking, like you just let them talk and not talk.
Like people, that's one of my questions in my lectures, you five minutes forever, whatever. It's actually only 90 seconds. People won't talk as long as you think they'll talk. And another thing is how often you think doctors will interrupt before their patients before they start talking. And they say, forever. That's like 11 seconds I've read. So we're quick to interrupt because we're afraid people are going to talk forever probably. But if we allowed them to talk a little bit more, if they're not going to talk that long, we're going to get so much more information.
you're gonna, you if you're in a primary care, you're gonna be able to find out the nuances of an issue. You can ask targeted directed questions, but you're gonna find out a little bit more. And you never know what little acorns is gonna be left and be like, that helps piece it all together. So, and also it's nice for your relationship as well. So they trust you, you know, they're more likely to follow your recommendations for medicine, procedures, follow up, if they feel like you're
part of the team and you're there to really listen to take care of them. on the back side, you're going to get a lot of great return on this small investment.
Rob Dwyer (28:31.58)
Yeah, that's fascinating. The idea of just letting people talk. think we've all been in situations where we are listening not to understand, but listening to respond and we're, we're ready with something that we want to interject and we don't let people finish their thoughts. And we're going to miss something if we do that. And it doesn't matter if we're a physician.
Or if we're working customer service or whatever it is that we're doing, maybe we're hosting a podcast. I don't know. Let people... I do more than just this, but it absolutely, if you're working and onboarding a new client, right? Sometimes you just need to understand more about a particular situation. Just let them explain everything that they're...
Dr. Rachel Hitt (29:11.337)
You have a hard job. Very hard.
Rob Dwyer (29:30.898)
trying to accomplish and understand what obstacles are in their way. It's very similar. The stakes are different. They're vastly different. But the behaviors and the skill set of communicating.
they extend across all of these different types of roles that people may be involved with. I do feel like, obviously you talked a little bit about medical schools getting a little bit better about teaching empathy, but you've got some training that is for far, far more than just people who have gone to medical school.
Is that a trend? mean, are we seeing that in other medical organizations where they're doing this kind of training? Is it enough? Do you want to see more of it? What are you seeing there?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (30:29.5)
always want to see more of it. I think that's pretty safe to say we have great opportunities with orientations. We could do modules to remind people so there's such a need for it. If we didn't need it, everyone would be happy going to our hospitals and we know that's not the case. So even places that are doing really, really well, everyone can use some help. And I know healthcare needs a little help. So yes, I think there's a lot more room for it.
I think the medical schools are doing a good job. think there's room. was talking to someone who worked in the financial industry who switched over to medicine. And when they were in the financial thing, he said, you bend over kind of backwards for the people to see what they need. And then to surprise that we didn't do the same things in health care. It's sort of a different kind of relationship. And how important it is to remind us we're there to help them. still versus us. We're doing them a favor.
by being their physicians or whatever, but it's a different kind of relationship. How can we help them? It's just the human connections as well. It's just that human interaction and how to get back to that.
Rob Dwyer (31:37.759)
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. What have we not talked about that you really want to share with the audience?
Dr. Rachel Hitt (31:49.233)
I think the future is bright. think that we're going to be able to accomplish a lot. The more people come together, we need to make the tent even bigger. I think there are a lot of silos of people doing great work in this area. And I want to this prioritized as a nation. I think that'd be so important. I think this is just as important as quality and safety.
that you hear a lot about in healthcare situations. Because in the bottom line, this is why we all went into medicine. This is why medicine exists. We're taking care of each other. And hopefully I've emphasized that point, the importance of it. And I'd love to reach out to anyone who's listening to this and has ideas that I would not have thought about. And I think that's the best part, because I've been in my clinical lane for so long. But I know there's a lot of other great ideas, like even just what you were mentioning. Like, that's good. I'll have to think about that.
So the more people we come together, the better because I think this is a should be a multidisciplinary approach to patient care and patient experience and taking care of ourselves as well. There's a lot of burnout with physicians and the clinicians. I don't want to keep talking just about the physicians, but the clinical group. How to we need to buoy the system. We have the best health care system in the world. How can we keep it that way and make everybody happy within it?
Rob Dwyer (33:13.65)
Yeah, I love that. Dr. Rachel Hitt, thank you so much for joining Next in Queue today. It's always a pleasure to chat with you.
Dr. Rachel Hitt (33:21.597)
Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.