While Detroit claimed “Hitsville, USA” at Motown Records, Memphis claimed “Soulsville, USA” at Stax Records. Stax was a scrappy startup that set up shop in an old movie theater and blended emerging R&B styles into the “Memphis Sound” of soul music. And the story of Stax Records can’t be told without Otis Redding.“Security” was the last of four successful singles off his first album, Pain in My Heart.It’s a tight, upbeat departure from the more famous ballads he’s known for like “These Arms of Mine” and “Sittin’ On (The Dock of the Bay)”.
Otis was singing about personal security, but lyrics like, “without it, I had a great loss” will resonate with the scrappy startups in the SaaS world for very different reasons. For startups in the healthcare space, that security is even more critical. Memphis native Jordan Hooker has led support through Series A to Series D, with exponential growth in customers and ticket volume.He joins to discuss the unique aspects of Support in startups, especially those focused on healthcare technology.
We discuss:
- The Startup Landscape
- The Role of Technology in Healthcare
- Challenges of Technology Reliance
- Data Protection and Security
- Navigating Challenges in Startup Support
- Innovative Transformations in Patient Care
Connect with Jordan on LinkedIn
Music courtesy of Big Red Horse
Transcript
Rob Dwyer (00:01.031)
The countdown is over and now Jordan Hooker, you're Next in Queue. How are you my friend?
Jordan Hooker (00:02.42)
Indeed it is.
I'm doing just fine, it's good to be here with you.
Rob Dwyer (00:10.201)
It is great to be here with you. We have only met once before and we just kind of threw this together, but we're going to talk about something that I think a lot of people don't necessarily think a lot about. And that is about the kind of vertical that you're going to work in. If, you're going to go to startup route, you've got a lot of experience in healthcare startups and
Jordan Hooker (00:15.224)
Indeed.
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (00:34.904)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (00:40.293)
As I understand it, that's kind of what you're doing today. So why don't you lay some groundwork for us? Tell us about you, where are you from, and what do you do in this world,
Jordan Hooker (00:52.718)
Sure. Absolutely. Well, yeah, good to be here. Jordan Hooker. I am originally, born and bred Memphis, Tennessee. I spent most of my life there before I did a little 10 year stint in Texas. And now I am an East coaster out on, out on the, not quite the coast of North Carolina, but close, close enough. Got mountains one way beach the other way. So, but yeah, I, I've been in startups for it's coming up on this little company near 12 years.
complete and utter chance, for me to end up in that kind of a space. I was a, I was working in radio. was doing news, enjoying talking on a microphone like this, just doing news reports, which sometimes, especially if you, you listen to my podcast in the intro, you'll hear me go deep into my radio announcer voice. And then I try to get out of it a little bit. So it's not too, too crazy. but I moved to Dallas hoping to, to land in a larger market, have more opportunity.
Complete flop. And so I found myself sitting in a customer support seat for a early stage startup that was working with nonprofits. And I fell in love with startups, fell in love with customer support. and I've been doing that ever since. so yeah, I've had an interesting stint through startups. I did two, two back to back focused more in nonprofits, working one with the nonprofits themselves. And then the next one working with, companies and their employee giving matching grant making programs.
then I went and did a stint as a customer success manager that I did not enjoy at all. There's people that do that and they do it well, and I love working with them. I do not want to do it again. and then found myself, for about three years running support for, a company that worked in the mobile fuel delivery space. there's an interesting experience. I learned a lot about logistics. It's not just about getting things from one place to the other. There is so much more involved.
so I have much more respect for the UPS and FedEx delivery drivers coming to my door, on a regular basis. That said, after that time I landed in a, organization that was working in insure tech. And so I started to see how wide this vertical was of healthcare and all of the related pieces of it and the challenges that are here. And so, did time there run in support for that organization.
Jordan Hooker (03:14.51)
Now working for another startup that we're currently in our series B and we work primarily in the clinician space, helping with credentialing and helping ensure that that process is efficient and ensures that doctors can spend as much time as possible in front of patients, which is where we need them to be. And then in my consulting business, I work with as well, healthcare startups of a few different stripes.
to help them think about what it looks like to build a really strong customer support program from ground zero. So as you scale to whatever size you are prepared to support your customers, whether they're clinicians, healthcare systems, or whether they're patients. So that's the space I'm in, the work I'm doing. I have found that this is probably where I want to land in terms of vertical. My wife is also a healthcare practitioner. So now I'm experiencing that from a whole different side. So.
It's definitely been a journey, but it's been interesting to land in this space that is truly never ending in terms of where it's going to go and what's going to be needed.
Rob Dwyer (04:18.759)
It doesn't sound like you're very busy, Jordan. think maybe you need to pick up another hobby. Yeah. So speaking of hobbies.
Jordan Hooker (04:20.812)
Yeah.
Jordan Hooker (04:26.518)
I probably should do that. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Dwyer (04:33.649)
You're a little bit of a musician as well. Tell me about that.
Jordan Hooker (04:36.174)
I am. Indeed. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. So I, uh, I come from a musical family, uh, multiple generations, Memphis, of course. I mean, yeah. Uh, multiple generations, uh, vocalist and, uh, musicians of various types, uh, played saxophone all through high school and college. I got a degree in music history, which I use 0 % of the time.
Rob Dwyer (04:44.697)
Memphis? I mean, come on.
Jordan Hooker (05:04.02)
I've yet to find a client that's interested in talking about Gregorian chant, but it is going to happen one day. And that is going to be the day that that, I don't know, $40,000 college degree is really going to pay off. So really excited for that now. Thankfully I get to just do it for fun. So a guitar and mandolin are my primary instruments. And since moving to Raleigh, we have a very, very strong folk and bluegrass music scene here in the Raleigh area. So it's been fun to dig into that.
experience it and start to play in that world as well.
Rob Dwyer (05:34.703)
OK, so I gotta know how do you go from playing the reeded saxophone to going into smaller stringed instruments. This is a interesting transition to me. Why did that happen?
Jordan Hooker (05:47.704)
Fair question.
Jordan Hooker (05:51.69)
Absolutely. It's a fair question. So the story definitely is, it's not as interesting as it might, is it might seem, but it is a lot, there's a lot more detail to it. So while saxophone was my primary instrument, I have always been the guy who would pick up an instrument, learn how to play it to a pretty decent level. I'm not the best at any of the instruments I play. so all through high school and college, played saxophone, clarinet, bassoon.
I did some percussion. I've been playing guitar for 25 years. So I've been at that for a good long time. And then mandolin about the last 10 years. So it's always kind of been a part of it. But once I finished college, was, I enjoy the saxophone, but I was tired of lugging around the big baritone saxophone that I played. So I moved on to the lightweight instruments that are much easier, much easier to get around with.
Rob Dwyer (06:42.353)
So that's what it boils down to is transportation. This is lighter, easier to move around.
Jordan Hooker (06:44.5)
Exactly. absolutely. Gosh. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. I put one of those in the case. I go where I need to go. I'm good to go. Indeed.
Rob Dwyer (06:53.745)
Yeah, OK, I'm I'm down with that. I I dig that as a very legit reason to do that. Will come back to Gregorian chance. Let's talk about. First, let's talk about startups versus non startups, because you brought that up a little bit. Tell me about what you. Because I know from our previous conversation that you gravitate toward the startup world.
Jordan Hooker (07:02.871)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (07:09.134)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (07:22.51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (07:22.557)
having experience both sides. What is it about startups that? Gets you going in the morning that didn't do that when you were working at a larger, more established.
Jordan Hooker (07:36.014)
Sure. think the thing with startups that is most, was most interesting when I first got in the door is how early on in my career, I got the opportunity to build something, from scratch. I had a COO that was very interested in what it looked like to not just have customer support reps who answered phones, answered emails, answered chats.
but also wanted us to think about what it looked like to own our domain and build our domain for that company. And so that really instilled that strong passion in me. The opportunity to learn at a startup, mean, just light years of a difference, two years at a startup and versus two years at a most corporate environments, larger environments, you're going to learn so much more, you're going to advance so much more, you're going to develop so much more.
And so I think those are the biggest things for me is just that opportunity. There is never a lack. If you get in the door and you want to build something, there's going to be an opportunity to build something. And I think that's the thing that's been most interesting for me. There's rarely a boring day. Some days there's too much of the opposite, obviously. Startups very much are like,
kind of running around holding up a dam where holes are popping and you're trying to push some cork in there and keep the whole thing from falling apart some days. But at the end of the day, I find that better than just sitting at a desk and being bored in a cubicle all day.
Rob Dwyer (08:56.454)
you
Rob Dwyer (09:03.569)
Yeah, I find it's good to have what's what's that tape where the guy slaps it on the tub with the big hole that the water is coming out of that. Somebody will. Listeners, I know you know what I'm talking about. It's it's a meme, but it's it's really sticky stuff, right? You need a lot of that to. Like.
Jordan Hooker (09:14.734)
Hmm.
Jordan Hooker (09:30.115)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (09:32.563)
cover the holes sometimes because otherwise things are going to get really wet and not in a good way. So then let's talk about being in the healthcare space. And I've had people from healthcare on here. I've had doctors on here. We talk a lot about patient experience, but when you're talking about technology and a little bit behind the scenes, like
Jordan Hooker (09:34.657)
Indeed.
Jordan Hooker (09:38.766)
Right.
Jordan Hooker (09:50.51)
Hmm.
Rob Dwyer (10:01.863)
What are some of the things that technology is doing today that we may not as patients necessarily know is going on behind the scenes, but actually is making things a little bit better?
Jordan Hooker (10:17.486)
Yeah, it's a great question. I think that there are a few aspects of that that are, that are very important for most patients. They go see their, let's say your primary care physician and you walk in the door, depending on the experience you have, you may have a doctor that's great and spends a lot of time with you. You may have the experience. lot of folks have five minutes in and out the door, either way of that experience.
Rob Dwyer (10:40.508)
He he.
Jordan Hooker (10:43.17)
there is so much more happening behind the scenes in your doctor's office or at the hospital or at whatever clinic you're at, then you will ever see. you've got to typically got a nurse or you've got a doctor sitting there on a computer and the number of things that are happening on that computer from interconnected systems, security aspects that are so critical in this space, all of those things are working in tandem. And if one of those things falls apart at any time,
I was just thinking prior to this, this call was thinking back on last year of the change healthcare data breach. we were talking 190 million people impacted. I'm still getting letters from companies that my information was found through that. it's, it's just a massive thing. And that just takes one thing. mean, the route that those
Rob Dwyer (11:24.604)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (11:40.75)
uh, those folks took to get into change healthcare was not a super complex route. was very easy for them to get in the door. So there's all of these complex systems happening in the background. so now overlay on top of that, the AI revolution that all of us in the customer experience world are probably on one hand excited about because there's a lot of pieces of that that can do really great things for us.
But inside of this healthcare space, particularly where you're dealing with very sensitive information, it becomes a whole different experience of how do we implement it? How do we use it in a way that is, that is actually helpful. And, know, I think back to some of my other experiences in startups and different verticals, for instance, when I was working in a, a company that does mobile fueling, we're dealing with people's cars, day in and day out for
Most people, it's probably their second most valuable asset. If they own a home, if they don't own a home, it's probably their most valuable asset. So it's, it's incredibly important for them. Now come into the healthcare space and you're talking about somebody's life. You're talking about the life of their family member. You're talking about very important and sensitive details of their life. And so it becomes a whole different ball game. And as a patient, you will likely never see all of those pieces running in the background and the people that are working really diligently to.
to ensure that that does run in an effective way.
Rob Dwyer (13:06.919)
Yeah, I wonder what you think about the reliance on technology in the healthcare space. And I'm going to provide some context. think it was Optum Health Prescription Services that had a breach not all that long ago. And so many pharmacies rely on that service to fill prescriptions. And so all of a sudden,
Jordan Hooker (13:25.186)
Hmm.
Jordan Hooker (13:33.784)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (13:35.987)
You have this situation where people need to get prescriptions. They go to the pharmacy and they can't get anything. And you know, it wasn't that long ago. Like I get it. I sound like an old fuddy duddy when I say this, but it wasn't that long ago that you would literally get a prescription on a, on a piece of paper and you would take that to the pharmacy and they would fill it. And I don't think anyone does that.
Jordan Hooker (13:57.838)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (14:05.873)
really anymore except for maybe in a hospital setting where the pharmacy is located on site.
Jordan Hooker (14:09.634)
Hmm.
Rob Dwyer (14:14.003)
Do you see potential challenges and maybe what are organizations doing to mitigate those risks outside of trying to stop bad actors from breaching data? Everybody knows we're trying to do that, but what other things are companies doing to try and stop the whole thing from just grinding to a halt?
Jordan Hooker (14:36.718)
Yeah. So I think that the reality of this extends to so many different pieces as a customer support leader. am constantly thinking about not even just in healthcare of, know, what are my contingency plans for what happens if my phone system goes down? Cause it's going to go down. What happens if my chat widget on the website,
A new release goes out and it doesn't work. What are my contingency plans? And I, I find that the companies that I'm engaging with in healthcare that are thinking and far enough ahead and looking around enough corners or building in those contingency plans to go, what does it look like if something happens? Whether let's say it's, let's say it's a breach. could be a breach. What do you do about that?
It could be a, we rolled out a new release in our system and it shut everything down. What do you do? Some of this is just standard product. What do we do? We always should have a rollback plan. We should always be prepared. The companies that are doing the best job of this are paying the most attention to that healthcare space or not. Now, move again into the healthcare world and you're talking about people's lives. You're talking about people's children.
I mean, as we deal with, pediatric care, all of these pieces, it is a whole different world. so there has always got to be a contingency plan for what it looks like for a situation like that. a prescription challenge, you know, what are our options for if our system is down to redirect these patients somewhere else? How do we not think just as a business that's going, my focus is on protecting my.
my bottom line in those moments and looking to say, is there a way we can serve this patient better right now by getting them to another facility, getting them to another pharmacy? What can we do to help these things? And so I'm finding companies that are thinking in that way are the companies that are most successful. They're also the companies that are most respected because they're actually taking the time to think those things through. And that's a really critical piece in this world.
Rob Dwyer (16:48.403)
Yeah, I can tell you that having recently gone through a SOC 2 certification that we did a risk analysis. I'm a little embarrassed to say that we hadn't formally gone through a risk analysis prior to that. Obviously, we have identified certain risks. But there is a very formal process to go through when you're going through certain certifications.
Jordan Hooker (16:57.955)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (17:13.613)
Hehe.
Rob Dwyer (17:16.819)
like SOC 2, SOC 2 is hardly the only one. When you are in a really interdependent type of environment, it is like the risks come at you from all over the place because it's not simply a matter of, I need to worry about my...
Jordan Hooker (17:35.906)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (17:44.413)
critical services that I rely on, for instance, for my software product, right? I've got a software product that does these things. It's powered by these other things that are critical dependencies. Then I have to start looking at all the things that I interface with and understand what potential problematic vectors exist with all of these different
Jordan Hooker (17:48.109)
Hmm.
Jordan Hooker (18:07.555)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (18:11.859)
partners that I have to interface with to serve the industry that you're serving.
Jordan Hooker (18:17.966)
Yeah, think that's an interesting challenge that I see even in my current full-time role is we're dealing with, healthcare administrators, system administrators, credentialing offices, then their technology arm as well, the folks that are managing that for them and then clinicians on the other side, because the amount of data that we are dealing with day in and day out, even though we're not dealing with data that is particular to
personal health information, we are dealing with PII. So we do have that, that element of that where, you know, people's personal information, regardless of whether this is healthcare or not needs to be protected. so thinking through what it looks like to not only make sure our systems are secure, but making sure even as we're dealing with outside sources, I have encountered a few times here and then another roles where.
I'm shocked sometimes at how companies deal even with their employees, personal information and treat it as if there's no, know, yeah, sure. Here's someone's such as social security number that I know you need for something. Here it is through unencrypted email. Well, if I asked them to send theirs to me through unencrypted email, they would think I was mad. So why are they treating someone else's? So I, I'm learning in this space.
And I'm seeing other leaders that are working in this space that are starting to think and realize, like, we don't just have to worry about our shop, our four walls. If we want to actually be dependable, reliable, be companies that are actually out there making a difference and are not going to be the next change healthcare situation. We even have to account for that. It would be easy for me to go, well, that's their fault. That's their problem. No big deal, but.
At the end of the day, that data is now in my hands. have a responsibility for it. So I think your example is right. Like how we have to constantly look around those corners. How do we guard against those things? How do we better handle those things when they come through? That's a huge challenge and we're all likely going to miss looking around some corners and it's, it's going to happen at some point that we miss something and that's okay. We're human. but perhaps there's where technology can come in place and also guard some of those corners for us that we're not able to look around.
Rob Dwyer (20:41.563)
Yeah, absolutely. It strikes me that, like you, I have found users of technology are often not fully aware of the risks that they're putting certain pieces of data at by using certain things, right? They are trying to accomplish a task, and that task seems easily accomplished.
Jordan Hooker (20:59.032)
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Rob Dwyer (21:10.013)
most effectively accomplished by following a particular path, a path that they understand. And so it's important sometimes to beat down a different path so that they understand that's the way to go. So if I detect that I've got a social security number, what do I do with that? Well, hopefully I can just wipe it so that
Jordan Hooker (21:14.445)
Hmm.
Rob Dwyer (21:38.725)
I'm not storing it where I'm storing it. Or maybe it's a credit card number that's in a place where it shouldn't be. And how do I handle that? There are so many times in the past that I've had to have a one-on-one conversation with someone to say, you know what? That's not where we put credit card information ever. Let's not do that, right? But they're not doing it maliciously.
Jordan Hooker (21:44.643)
Hmm
Jordan Hooker (22:01.358)
Right. Yes. Right. Sure.
Rob Dwyer (22:08.467)
They just are trying to accomplish a task that has been put in front of them. And those guardrails and look clinicians.
Jordan Hooker (22:12.355)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (22:22.941)
Their job is to worry about our health. Yes, they need to take care of our data as well, but their primary role, their focus is on our health. So what kinds of things are you seeing as far as ways that technology partners are kind of protecting people against themselves when it comes to data? Because it's such a huge thing today.
Jordan Hooker (22:34.734)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (22:52.67)
Yeah. Absolutely. I think in terms of, you know, we think about your point there about clinicians or our goal should be as a technology company supporting anyone working in this space is to give them as much time as possible to be able to be in front of patients, to actually serve patients in the way that they desire to, and we want to equip them to do. And so you do have that challenge of
Boy, if you're running through a whole patient list in any given day, how do you, how do you make sure you're protecting that data? What are you doing to ensure that you've got the proper information in the proper place and only the proper people have access to it? And then the whole aspect of that, of, know, we're thinking about HIPAA compliance here. Am I meeting all those things? If I'm a doctor, like, yes, I should be thinking about those things, but boy, it would be nice to have technology partners that are thinking about those things for me that I can trust. And so.
I find right now that there are a lot of companies that are thinking in that way. there are some that I think are exploiting that fear of how do we do that? And so they're going into the market with tools that are likely powered by some type of, AI. Well, put quotes around that because it's likely not actually truly AI and they're putting it out in the market. And for some reason, there's an assumption that because it's modern technology, it must be secure.
When in reality, just because it's modern doesn't mean it's secure. In fact, it might be less secure because it's quote modern. so learning how to sort through those things is definitely a challenge, particularly as a consultant working in these places, as I talk with, you know, potential customers or customers about tools that they might be interested in using, you know, what's a company that's actually taken the time to figure out what it means to secure things? What are their contingency plans?
How do they protect data? What do they do when something outlandish happens? Like somebody sends you a social security number via, you know, non-secure email or in your example, here's a credit card number for something. Like, what do they do with those? Do they treat it as a, well, you know, whatever, no big deal. Or do they treat it with it? The seriousness with which it should be treated. And I think it would be a wise thing for healthcare companies, hospitals, private practice, all of these things.
Jordan Hooker (25:14.776)
What do you do when something actually does go wrong? And if they can't answer that question in a thorough manner, you're, you're likely better moving on to another venture.
Rob Dwyer (25:27.131)
Yeah, absolutely it is. More and more critical. I mean you mentioned it earlier. You're still getting letters. Hey, your data is out there. I almost feel like everything has been exposed at this point, mainly because I'm a T Mobile customer, so gee thanks T Mobile.
Jordan Hooker (25:48.43)
Same here. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Rob Dwyer (25:53.479)
But that doesn't change the responsibility that providers have of protecting data, all kinds of data. If you're a software provider that is ingesting any kind of data, then you have a duty to safeguard that data, to keep it from getting out. And those questions are...
Jordan Hooker (25:57.272)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (26:03.128)
Hmm.
Jordan Hooker (26:14.434)
Hmm.
Rob Dwyer (26:23.461)
If nothing else, they will tell you whether or not they've had those conversations internally and have a plan because if they can't answer that, then the answer is no, they haven't. They haven't had that conversation. They have no idea what they're going to do, and that means you don't have any idea what they're going to do. I I want to switch gears.
Jordan Hooker (26:29.462)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Jordan Hooker (26:36.846)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (26:43.564)
Yep. Absolutely.
Hehe.
Rob Dwyer (26:50.503)
You're from Memphis. Memphis, Tennessee, home of Elvis.
Jordan Hooker (26:51.606)
I am.
Jordan Hooker (26:55.607)
Indeed.
Rob Dwyer (26:57.613)
If I've been to Memphis once, stayed at the Peabody, was great. Went and caught a show at the Fox theater, but I'm wondering as a native, if someone were going to Memphis for let's say just a few days, like what's the one kind of under the radar place or thing that they need to do? I think everybody knows Beale Street and all of that.
Jordan Hooker (27:13.848)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (27:22.648)
Hmm. Sure.
Rob Dwyer (27:26.311)
But what's the thing that maybe is unexpected or a special gem that you know of that you would say, you should do this?
Jordan Hooker (27:33.678)
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I've got a few of those that I'll, that I'll definitely share. I would say go to Memphis, walk down Beale street during the day, see it. It'll take you five minutes. You've done it. That's all you need to know. Move along. Go to the Peabody. Just go to the Peabody.
Rob Dwyer (27:52.593)
It can be a mess at night. It can be a mess.
Jordan Hooker (27:57.166)
Stay there if you want. It's a very nice hotel. We we've stayed there a few times when we've been back. It's, it's a nice place to stay. no, no issue there. Uh, watch the ducks. They come down, you know, a couple of times a day, back and forth. It's fun. If there's a Peabody rooftop party, go to it. Those are great. All those things are fun. No problem. The things that are really special in Memphis are actually things that are so much more from outside of Memphis. And that's that the, uh,
The international food scene that has grown in Memphis is, I mean, it's, it's wild. Ethiopian restaurants that are just popping up and have just incredible food that you have like never thought about what these flavors could be like together. every variety of Asian cuisine, could think about West African cuisine popping up. So anywhere you go, that's, that's what I would tell people to look for is.
I mean, don't get me wrong. I love barbecue. Go eat the barbecue. Don't go to rendezvous. It's not worth the time. It's not worth the money. It's not as cool as it used to be. Drive out to Germantown, which is one of the suburbs. Go to Germantown Commissary. It's the best barbecue you'll eat in Memphis. I will die on this hill. And then after that, go eat that cuisine. Search Ethiopian food. Search West African cuisine and go eat that just incredible food that folks are making.
I think that's the number one thing you gotta do when you're in that area.
Rob Dwyer (29:26.675)
I love this suggestion and I have to admit that I had Memphis barbecue when I was in Memphis, because I mean it's the thing you do. But I am also a, I am a Kansas City barbecue guy and my family has roots in southern Texas and so Texas barbecue is absolutely a thing.
Jordan Hooker (29:34.582)
Mm-hmm. Of course.
Jordan Hooker (29:40.526)
Hmm.
Jordan Hooker (29:45.496)
Hmm.
Indeed.
Rob Dwyer (29:50.535)
I say I was underwhelmed by Memphis barbecue.
Jordan Hooker (29:53.506)
It just depends on where you went. Depends on where you went. I think I do.
Rob Dwyer (29:58.747)
I think you know where I went and I was underwhelmed. just didn't, didn't hit the way that I wanted it to. But I will say it's a really cool town. Ton of history there. And to expand for those that are really, really confused about a comment that you made. The Peabody Hotel.
Jordan Hooker (30:03.456)
Understandably, yeah.
Jordan Hooker (30:14.316)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Rob Dwyer (30:29.619)
has ducks that live in the hotel and they do something called the Duck March a couple of times a day. The ducks live basically in the penthouse. Yeah. And they bring them down. They have a duck master. He's like the ringmaster at a circus almost. And then these ducks walk out and the kids love them.
Jordan Hooker (30:31.246)
Indeed.
Jordan Hooker (30:35.66)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (30:41.322)
On the roof. Exactly. Right.
Jordan Hooker (30:56.59)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (30:59.155)
The whole lobby of the hotel becomes this huge gathering spot just packed with people to see the ducks. It lasts for, I don't know, 30 minutes maybe? Something like that? Yeah. Yeah.
Jordan Hooker (31:01.336)
hat.
Jordan Hooker (31:09.272)
something like that, the ducks swim around for an hour or so. It's great. Go upstairs, see their, see their penthouse. It's pretty cool.
Rob Dwyer (31:16.723)
Yeah, so it's a unique experience. You probably if you haven't heard of the Peabody, you were probably very confused about Jordan mentioning ducks. There are ducks. They live in the hotel. You should see them. OK. I told you we're going to come back to it, so we're going to come back to it just because I feel like it. When I hear Gregorian chant, I think.
Jordan Hooker (31:20.876)
Yes, it is.
Jordan Hooker (31:27.182)
The ducks, yes. There are indeed. Oh man.
Rob Dwyer (31:46.419)
of Monty Python and the Holy Grail and the guys hitting themselves on the head with a board but tell me something interesting that i don't know about Gregorian chanting and like this is your fault you brought it up so here we go
Jordan Hooker (31:49.102)
Indeed.
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (32:01.452)
Hmm
Jordan Hooker (32:07.398)
Yeah, I'm going to, depending on how I answered this question, I may get a letter rescinding my music history degree that I earned. I don't even want to think about how many, how many years ago that it has been since I earned that degree. Um, I think that is the best cultural version of a Gregorian chant you're going to get there for money Python. think the thing about Gregorian chant, obviously people like,
Rob Dwyer (32:15.267)
Hahaha!
Jordan Hooker (32:35.266)
Most people you talk to probably don't even know, know what we're referring to, or they know that they have this very small, you know, narrow piece, which is fine because I would literally not expect anybody other than like people that are in musicology, you'd have any like real concept of, of it. There is actually some really incredibly beautiful Gertrude Enchant. It is, it, for people that know a little bit about it, they might kind of, whatever it's boring. It's super simplistic.
There is some Gregorian chant that is just beautiful, incredible music that accomplishes things with tones that you couldn't even imagine would be possible. And when you hear that type of music song in a cathedral, instead of just a little small room, you get that experience. It's just phenomenal. And so I would...
I would encourage people if there's ever an opportunity to hear a choir sing something that is Gregorian chant or Gregorian chant esque, don't immediately dismiss it. You might actually find a really beautiful and moving piece of music that. That will be worth listening to. It's not going to be my, you know, it's not going to be on my Apple music into the year review. but it's also not going to be something that I'm just going to immediately dismiss if it pops up. I think maybe I'll listen to that today.
Rob Dwyer (34:00.401)
Yeah, it's definitely it's not house music folks. You are not dancing to this per se, but I love that you brought up the venue, right? The acoustics will make a huge difference in how you experience this and experiencing it like just. Download it on your phone. Listen to it in your headphones like that is not going to do it justice. This is one of those things you should probably.
Jordan Hooker (34:03.694)
No, no, of course not. Yeah.
Jordan Hooker (34:10.584)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Yes they will.
Jordan Hooker (34:25.164)
Mm-hmm. Correct.
Rob Dwyer (34:29.519)
Actually go see live in a cathedral because the acoustics are gonna make it pop
Jordan Hooker (34:30.828)
Mm-hmm, yeah. Yep.
Absolutely. Go to Europe, go to a large cathedral, hear it done there. You'll be glad you did. And you'll also be in Europe, which is of course a great place to be.
Rob Dwyer (34:45.607)
Yeah, I think everyone should take that advice. Just go to Europe, because you know, it's just like. Just across the ocean. It's nice and close. Yeah. Get yourself a flight. Land in Amsterdam and then go check out the rest of the continent. It's fantastic. Absolutely, absolutely do it. OK, I want to hone in on one more personal.
Jordan Hooker (34:49.294)
Yeah, absolutely.
Just, yeah, just a pond. No big deal. mean, it's quick. Yeah, no problem.
Jordan Hooker (35:02.254)
Take the train all the way down. It's great. Yeah.
Rob Dwyer (35:15.271)
thing and that is also related to music. What's your favorite song to play?
Jordan Hooker (35:20.216)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (35:28.76)
Favorite song to play.
Jordan Hooker (35:34.574)
I'm going to go out on a limb here because this is definitely going to seem odd. Obviously being in the, folk blue grass kind of scene and having grown up in the South with hymns and church music being the number one thing. I don't know that I could zero it in, but I love playing through old hymns because there is so much room as a
guitar player or mandolin player, or even a vocalist to go so many different directions. obviously you can sing hymns very structured, but there's also so much room, especially as a soloist in that space to really move and venture out of, of places. And obviously we've, you know, talking about Memphis being, you know, the home of Elvis who was a very spiritual person, but you know, hymns are just.
kind of part of the South, whether you're a church person or you're not, hymns are just a part of the fabric of that. And so there's just so much uniqueness that you can get out of it. So it'd be hard to narrow it down, but you can be a good old hymn book from the like 1970s and I'll be a happy camper and find some great stuff to play from that.
Rob Dwyer (36:34.419)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (36:52.283)
I love that. I love that answer. OK, back to more business stuff.
You're at a startup. You're working on this support team like tell me about. What's Jordan's current challenge that you're trying to overcome or a challenge that you just think maybe like I just got over the hump with this one and what was it?
Jordan Hooker (37:21.326)
Sure. I will say this is the challenge that I've had in, a support leader in every single startup that I have been a part of. And that is the push and pull with products on what we are going to do next. What needs to be prioritized throw obviously engineering into that because they're the ones building and they're also the ones fixing when something breaks. so,
working through that challenge is constant. Thankfully, I'm in a spot right now where I've got folks on those teams who are really focused on the customer experience. And so we're, finding ways to do that. Well, but we're in a few places where that's not the case, where it is, it is a challenge to get that movement. So I think for me, those are, that's the biggest piece. It's a recurring theme. The other piece that I think is, is really welling up right now is.
is the whole AI piece. And I know we're talking about this on every single podcast we're doing everyone we're on. It's, it's the topic, but it's a topic for a reason. And I think the challenge that I'm seeing is that there are so many options out there for me as a support leader to pull in, but knowing how to evaluate those in a way.
Cause this is the kind of thing that I'd love to have six months to just see how it works before I actually plug it into my system. And I just don't have that kind of time or that kind of money for us to do that. So learning how to evaluate those as a support leader, I get three or four probably emails a day from the company that's built the next AI tool that's going to change my support program. And they're almost all the same. They're built on the same platforms. They don't do actually anything. So learning how to ask those questions and think through that to guard.
my customers to guard my team, to guard my company is the biggest challenge that I'm facing right now. Outside of just the normal day to day support and product back and forth, which is just, it's going to last until the sun burns out that we're going to be dealing with that.
Rob Dwyer (39:25.979)
Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, there is always a timeline for product to bring out new new features, new functionality, the shining and it's not just product, right? The sales team is looking for that as well. They've got somebody that's just waiting for this one killer feature. Then they can go close that deal, right? But.
Jordan Hooker (39:36.494)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (39:52.814)
Hmm.
Rob Dwyer (39:56.701)
There are always the little bugs or the little things in the existing UI that need some attention that needs some love that maybe, okay, we did this and it's okay, but it could be better. And how do we balance that from a time standpoint? Because you only have so many people working on these things at once. And by the way,
Jordan Hooker (40:09.036)
Yes.
Jordan Hooker (40:14.286)
Hmm.
Rob Dwyer (40:25.811)
needs to be tested before you roll it out. If you don't test it, things get broken. That's just what happens. so ideally, you're testing all of that. So it's a big challenge. One thing I'll just give some advice, and I give this to everyone, including Jordan. When you are evaluating any product that is using AI, ask them how their
Jordan Hooker (40:28.142)
So yeah.
Jordan Hooker (40:37.792)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (40:56.023)
Particularly when we're talking about Gen AI, right? And I think we should clarify that. think most people understand what we're talking about when we say that, but there are all kinds of AI. Gen AI is one flavor of that. Are they just plugging in to a system or are they hosting their own models that they can then tweak, train, and by the way, keep secure? If they're
Jordan Hooker (40:58.467)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (41:03.649)
Sure.
Jordan Hooker (41:18.571)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (41:25.299)
plugging into something just know that that means your data is being passed back and forth so if it's just hey we use open AI's API to Do these things and then we put a shiny new Visage on it You can probably just do that yourself There's no point in paying for it
Jordan Hooker (41:31.351)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (41:46.41)
Absolutely. Yeah. Very true. Right. And you know, back to earlier in our conversation, just talking about data security. mean, especially in, in this space that, that I work and the vertical I'm in and healthcare, mean, letting some system that I'm not sure where it is in just data that could potentially have very secure, very sensitive information should give any support leader in any company that's working in this vertical.
a very long pause before they make those decisions.
Rob Dwyer (42:17.341)
Yeah.
We've talked, I want to end on a positive note because we've talked about some of the challenges that are out there. We've talked about the struggles and, and product, but I'd like to talk about some wins that you're seeing, whether it's with your company or with the industry that you go that that's awesome. I'm so glad we did that.
Jordan Hooker (42:22.903)
Of course.
Jordan Hooker (42:33.006)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (42:44.91)
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a great, great place to land the plane. I think the things that are happening that are really exciting in this vertical are companies that are growing out of an understanding that we have to change the status quo. I mean, this is the thing we can talk about in any industry. The best companies, they're going to be the ones that realize we have to break out from what...
what once was, but we're starting to see so many companies come into this space that are actually focused on what does it look like to equip clinicians to serve their patients well? Like nobody goes into being a doctor because they want to spend six minutes with a patient, write a prescription and move on to the next one. They go into this because they want to help people. So,
I'm seeing companies start to step into that space and go, we want to build tools that empower clinicians to go do that. We want to take the, the repetitive challenge, not so challenging mind numbing things they're doing and accomplish those things in an efficient and secure way. That's also a great experience for them using our technology. And so we're seeing companies do that over on the, insurance space. We're seeing such an expansion of, of companies that are understanding that like
The traditional way of doing insurance is broken. yes, we can have conversations about single payer systems. can have conversations about government run healthcare. All of those things are perfectly valid conversations, but the reality is here in the U S this is the system we're working with. So what does it look like for companies to build tools and processes that do a really incredible thing? So understanding what it looks like. I call back to one of my, one of
Really my first healthcare anything company was Noyo and Noyo is building API tools that allow these mainline health insurers that have been around for 125 years to connect with these benefit administration platforms like Rippling and Gusto that are brand new, super great tech stacks. How do you put those things together? It's like you're taking...
Jordan Hooker (45:06.402)
this one, you know, cable from over here with this one and going, there's not even an adapter that does this thing. Like I got it. Yeah. So they built some tools that allow for that. and so it's been really cool to see companies like that in the space that are starting to think like, how do we make even the insurance part of this better, making sure that, you know, our patients have access to their insurance. Employees have access to their insurance on.
day one instead of day 35, because that's how long it takes to go round trip, to get everything approved, giving visibility to what things are going to cost. mean, that, that is probably one of the biggest challenges. mean, I am thankful for the laws that we've seen passed in the last few years that prevent people from being as surprised by healthcare bills, but it's still happening every single day. And there are companies that are working to combat that, to give visibility on the front end and also to help people see where their options are.
Rob Dwyer (45:56.731)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (46:04.402)
that's where the big wins are happening in the healthcare tech space as a whole whether you're looking at insurance, patient care, clinician support, all of those pieces. I think that's the exciting things that are happening right now.
Rob Dwyer (46:19.155)
Folks grab your RCA cables, plug them into the back of your VCR and then see how that connects to your brand new TV. I'll give you a hint. It doesn't. You need to buy an adapter and there are companies out there that are working to adapt because some of that legacy technology. People don't want to move away from that because of the huge expense and if it already works. Why?
Jordan Hooker (46:22.03)
the
Jordan Hooker (46:27.118)
the
Indeed.
Jordan Hooker (46:43.798)
Mm-hmm. True.
Right.
Rob Dwyer (46:49.245)
but it still does need an avenue to communicate to newer things. So I love that Jordan. Thank you so much for joining Next in Queue. This has been a great conversation. I can't wait for this to be released. And, for those of you who are long time listeners, you know, the deal go down to the show notes, find Jordan on LinkedIn, say hello. Jordan's also a member of, Support
Jordan Hooker (46:58.176)
Absolutely.
Rob Dwyer (47:18.611)
Driven I think that's how we met. So if you're part of the Support Driven community, you can chat with him there as well. If you don't know anything about that community. Well, come on supportdriven.com like go check it out. Jordan, thank you, thank you.
Jordan Hooker (47:19.456)
Indeed, I believe so.
Jordan Hooker (47:27.167)
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Hooker (47:34.456)
Great place to be.
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.