May I See Your Rental Agreement featuring Amas Tenumah

Transcript

Amas Tenumah, thanks for being next in queue. You are so gracious to come on this podcast and I just have to before we even talk about. All of the things that you are. I know that this is probably the biggest podcast you've ever been on in the world. I am surely the most famous host.

of a podcast that you have ever appeared on. Would you confirm that, please?

Amas Tenumah (05:09.034)
absolutely. I had to, I think you told me, you told me I had to do George Costanza's show first. And then, if that went well, which I did.

Rob Dwyer (05:10.96)
You're a liar.

Rob Dwyer (05:16.625)
Ha

Rob Dwyer (05:21.34)
Right, that was the contractual agreement. was like, look, you go talk to George Costanza on his nationally recognized podcast. And if you do well and then NPR. Yep. And if you do well. That too, if you do well, then I will allow you to grace next in queue. And and you did you passed all the tests.

Amas Tenumah (05:32.14)
And then NPR, and then NPR, right? And then NBC News.

Rob Dwyer (05:50.106)
And now here you are. thanks. Thanks for joining.

Amas Tenumah (05:54.062)
No, seriously. Thanks. Thanks for having me, man. We are kindred spirits, both Midwesterners, although I am an astroturf from a New York kid. 20 something years at some point. This is after 24 years. I am am one one of us, right? So let's go.

Rob Dwyer (06:13.532)
Yeah, if you move to the central plain states and you stay more than like 10 years, like you've decided that's that's

Amas Tenumah (06:24.204)
Well, my case was the witness protection program, which I can't say much more than that. I'm not sure.

Rob Dwyer (06:31.044)
Okay. Let's not talk about your former identity. We'll edit that out because I want you to live. You are a CX consultant. You're a prolific author. You also have your own podcasts plural. So there's, there's a lot going on, but boil it down for people like

Amas Tenumah (06:40.855)
So

Amas Tenumah (06:58.818)
this.

Rob Dwyer (07:00.986)
What is it that gets you up in the morning? What do you do?

Amas Tenumah (07:01.624)
Well.

Amas Tenumah (07:05.846)
I title myself an evangelist, digital evangelist. And in general, I'm passionate about two topics. How do you live a more blissful life for whatever that means for folks and customer service. And I take offense to the consultant piece, which is what I am, but there's a lot of self -marriage.

But, so I try to help people understand those two topics around customer service. I am helping consumers, people who not in this business, make sense of why customer service is what it is. And I do my part to help practitioners to do better in customer service. And then have fun doing it. So.

That's my work. would anyway, there is a mic, a pen, anything around customer service or living blissfully. You cannot get me to shut up about it. So when you asked me to come on your show and talk about this topic after spending some time with you, I'm like, yes, where can I sign?

Rob Dwyer (08:23.868)
Step one to living blissfully by a house in the Midwest, right?

Amas Tenumah (08:28.984)
That's it. You buy that house, hopefully with a basement of kind. You're going to get married and if you're a man, you're going to be relegated there to spend the rest of your life there. So get a basement, some kind of cave and you you spend your weekends talking about the lawn, barbecue and grilling and that's it. There's do not, so don't make this.

Rob Dwyer (08:31.224)
Ha

the basement.

Rob Dwyer (08:55.792)
Yeah, that is bliss. That sounds like bliss.

Rob Dwyer (09:02.14)
Alright, let's talk about some real stuff besides Bliss.

Rob Dwyer (09:11.868)
CX customer experience. Have we just failed like is as the experiment that's been going on for I don't know how long it. Did we really mess it up?

Amas Tenumah (09:29.208)
You know, I don't know if this whole customer experience then is going to be looked upon as a net good or a net bad. Today I'm on the net bad deal. What I mean by that is we did use to figure out how to do customer service, how to do marketing, how to do all of these distilled parts before customer experience came. And I customer experience came and everyone jumped on the bad wagon. I'm customer experience because customer experience.

people locked themselves in this prison where they said it's the SOM experience from the Alpha, the Omega, the everything in between. And so everyone was like, I saw people literally who were like contact center people running service operations. I'm a CX guy now. And there was just a bastardization of what customer experience is. But you don't actually need to believe a word I've said. I simply ask you, I don't want to be all.

for anything, but are you better off than you were 10 years ago in your customer experience? And I think the numbers are in and the numbers say ACSI, my favorite one says we're back to where we were pre 2006. We were making improvements all the way to 2018 and we've given all of it back. We've gone back 20 years. There was now a rage survey and you

two thirds of customers are angry, but there is now 9 % of customers, one out of 10 want revenge on the companies they do business with. Like they want to burn down your headquarters. Like that's kind of where we are. And so I think most of it has been a mistake. there was one person you might know her Michelle Martinez, who gave me the best explanation for what CX is good for. And she calls it the constitution.

that says that governs, this is how we want customers to feel across all of this. Well, there's been scope creep. Once you write the constitution, you don't go changing it every five minutes. You get the hell out of the way and you let customer service do what customer service and make it about, it's not about CX. We are trying to fix customer service. We are trying to fix the sales experience.

Amas Tenumah (11:48.758)
And then CX can be what it is, which is come in and look through the constitution. It could be the Supreme court, if you will, let me torture this metaphor and say, Hey, you people in service, does this conform with the constitution of our company finance? Hey, the way you send out bills, does this conform with our deal? So it's not this be all.

trying to invade the whole company. just needs to go stay in that corner, show up every now and then. And please, for those of you who listening or practitioners here, if you work in customer service, it is not a bath in. I work in customer service. You do not need to see exit at all. It could just be service. We get that it's part of the experience. You could just be service. We don't need to go grift our way into this.

Rob Dwyer (12:30.076)
You

Amas Tenumah (12:42.114)
thing, amorphous thing, because it's the new thing, because I'm telling you, there's going to be another one and you're going to start looking silly when you keep, you you go from service to CX. So it's a long answer to say, I think it's been a net negative and it's been a distraction from the core practices of running a contact center well, running service well, running marketing well.

Rob Dwyer (12:42.118)
Ha ha ha ha.

Amas Tenumah (13:09.324)
When it became this ubiquitous thing, it burdened us. We're trying to, you know, make things that aren't as complex, more complex than they need to be.

Rob Dwyer (13:19.322)
I love all of that. I do have two follow -up questions related to that. The first one you do not have to answer. But are we just angrier in general as customers about all kinds of things that don't have to do with the companies? And does that fuel our need to have revenge somewhere? And we just point that ire.

Amas Tenumah (13:27.79)
guys.

Amas Tenumah (13:41.799)
a thousand percent, but it does have to do with the company, to an extent, meaning while all of this was going on, guess what these companies were doing? Ratcheting up the promises, satisfaction guarantee, life changing this. So I came in, I had problems. I turned on the TV. I saw your commercial.

Your commercial didn't say you sold shitty hamburgers. You're like, we sell happiness in a box. And then you get there and there is no happiness.

Rob Dwyer (14:09.744)
You

Rob Dwyer (14:15.708)
And I get this sad burger that just makes me depressed and I'm like, where's the happiness? This thing isn't even like stacked right.

Amas Tenumah (14:26.302)
Exactly. So we are angrier as a society. And yes, it mirrors Dale, but I think we have not done ourselves a favor because every company now is cares about the customer experience. There's a banner at my post office, post office, you know, the U S post office, customer experience or death. Didn't say that exactly, but might as well.

Rob Dwyer (14:53.852)
think Michael Mattson was in charge of that when they when they put that banner out. I know that he led some CX initiatives at the post office. He didn't tell me about that one specifically, but I think customer experience or death is probably his fault. So shout out to Michael and Michael Amas does not approve of that phrasing. It seems. OK, so that's number one. Number two.

Amas Tenumah (15:15.992)
Not a fan.

Rob Dwyer (15:24.348)
And I'd just like to get your take on this. I feel like that customer experience has grown as a discipline as the channels through which we can access companies as customers have also grown. Right. So we talk about go back to 2006. Right. In 2006 there was no Twitter. There was no Facebook. There were

Amas Tenumah (15:50.732)
Right. Yep.

Rob Dwyer (15:53.208)
Nobody was using smartphones, right? And so like you called or you went to the store or you faxed. That was a thing. So am I thinking about that inaccurately? Is that just a side thing? And we've decided that we're going to put customer experience on top of that because we have channels or we need to justify jobs. Like what are your

Amas Tenumah (16:20.27)
Yeah, I think you're onto something with the explosion of channels, which by the way, no one asked for. I remember when Omnichannel was the de jour goal of, just need this Omnichannel experience. And I've got articles and I've got receipts from way back in 2009 where I'm like, you know, Omnichannel is a giant distraction because like I'd never met a customer who said, Hey, you know what I really want?

I want more ways to contact you people. Or worse, after I've contacted you through more ways, I need a way for you so that I can go from this. could be in Best Buy and I could do the thing and then I could pick up. I've never, the only people who dreamt this nightmare up are the technologists and the consultants. I don't hear any of this from where it matters. So yes.

Once you expanded the complex into, we've got a multi channel of choice, all of this, you know, fence of full sounding concepts that we're all going to look back with regret of like, until you ask and talk to real customers. By the way, my new voice, which is relatively new over this last post COVID was because I stopped talking to people like you, Rob. And I started talking to actual customers.

And every time I would open my mouth and say what I was working on, they all just get, well, can I get, is there a way to get a human? Like they just came back to like, I don't really care about half of what you've just said. So you're right. And then once you've expanded it, and then once you've to see exit, you have to make it ubiquitous. Once you've brought marketing into this, now we're going to send them an outreach via text and we need somebody to respond to them. And when they tweeted us.

We've done all of this. And so then the definition of what then it was a call center. Then we made it a contact center. but then marketing is sending out outreaches contacts that the contact center doesn't know about. think we did. We complicated it intentionally. And then once you do, right, you've got to then have people to manage it. You have to, it's like a little bit like the government, right?

Amas Tenumah (18:42.786)
You expose departments, you have regulations, you expand all this, then you got to hire people. And so it grows. And then the people you're serving are keep wondering, I just, I just want to talk to someone like, or I just want my check or whatever the thing to just arrive. And we've lost, we've lost, we've lost sight of that.

Rob Dwyer (18:56.24)
Right?

Rob Dwyer (19:00.411)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (19:05.84)
I'm going to pick on a brand. It's a brand that I am a customer of, that's T -Mobile. And T -Mobile, for those that don't know, if you actually want to get something done with T -Mobile, you have to get in touch with a special department they call T -Force. And the only way to get in touch with them is through Twitter or Facebook support. You can't call them. You can't reach them through the app.

There are specific places and if you're not a user of those applications, then you can't get to them. It is a barrier that they have purposely thrown up. They have the special department that actually can do stuff for you. Like they'll get your problem solved and they'll do it quickly and they're friendly. They might even tell you a joke, but I have to figure out how to get in touch with them, Amas.

Amas Tenumah (20:02.782)
And to stay on the topic of CX, there are young CX leaders coming up. You're not the ones I was coming for. I think you guys have an opportunity to do something different. And if you want to make a difference back to my constitution analogy, that's where CX should come in to say in our constitution, accessibility of all kinds of people is important. We do not want to discriminate. You should be the Supreme court.

We do not want to discriminate against tech challenged people. So my conscience when it comes to customers, the person who lives right next door there, and I'm pointing to this wall, I'm in suburbia is a 91 year old lady. name is Pat. And you know what her biggest thing is? She's signing up for services that demand she download an app. Like she cannot do certain things anymore. If she doesn't get an app. She's she, she was at the grocery store and there was a sale.

The sale only apply to people who don't. That's where you should be looking and saying in our thing, the feelings we want and the things people we want to serve in your example for T -Mobile, the CX people should be going, wait a second. We are not T -Mobile for those who are sophisticated enough to navigate the internet and get to the special. I'm going to tell all my T -Mobile friends now that Rob's cracked this thing. You got to go find the special elite T -Force then.

You say the secret word, it's like a speakeasy, they let you in and then stuff happens. That's unconscionable. And that's the role to me. That's the appropriate role. CX, we do not need more journey maps. We need more kind of the guard of the experience who is like, wait a second, whoever is doing this, then this is against, we're going to strike that thing down.

Rob Dwyer (21:31.322)
It is!

Amas Tenumah (21:56.162)
Go rethink this then because it's against what we've said is in our constitution.

Rob Dwyer (22:02.97)
Yeah, I love that you brought up the cost, not just the customers, right? You're talking to customers and that has changed your outlook. Obviously you've been in this business for a long time. I'm not going to call you old or anything like that, but you are experienced in. You have a lot of wisdom to share.

Amas Tenumah (22:28.578)
that.

Rob Dwyer (22:32.732)
I just shared some wisdom with a very, very small audience who may or may not be customers of T -Mobile, but how can we go about getting more advice to customers? Is there anything that maybe you're doing that can help customers navigate this new menagerie of digital walls?

Amas Tenumah (23:01.326)
I started in this business in the 90s. So the easiest way I can think about it is I have less years between now and retirement than I've already worked. That's kind of sad. I'm am definitely on the back nine. I don't know what hole. And what I want to focus on, so I wrote this book, Waiting for Service, and I haven't said this out loud to anyone.

Rob Dwyer (23:22.883)
You

Amas Tenumah (23:30.764)
I may be breaking news here. So I wrote Waiting for Service. It was directed to consumers. And I did two things in that book. I exposed why customer service just sucks. Because most customers I realized during COVID, my gosh, you think this is an error. They're like, I don't think these people know that. No, no, no, no. I helped build some of this thing. This is, we expect you to show up and you're going to use this.

machine, whether you want to or not. Can't I just, no, no, no, they don't want you to opt out. That's bad for business. And so I decided to expose here's what it is. And the second part was how do customers, and by the way, me and you are victims of the same thing. How do we, what are steps and things we can, we can, we can do to begin to fight back. and so, you know, my next,

Rob Dwyer (24:04.412)
Mmm.

Amas Tenumah (24:28.714)
step on this is so I started this waiting for service caught fire. That's how I was. I was, I was, fortunate enough to get on NPR and NBC and all of that. Even yesterday, think the Biden administration is doing something and people are saying, Hey, did you get another interview with NPR? No. If you read the article, my name's the first, they just dug up my conversation with them. So I think there is fever there. So my next step is

Waiting for service. It's a website waiting for service .com. I want to use this vehicle in this platform to then begin to galvanize the voice. I'm a guy who understands what's happening on the inside, how this tends to be. I am a customer just like everyone else. And all of this culminates in breaking news on your show and your show only. The next book comes out at Christmas of 2024 because what better present than yours truly.

And it is a continuation. It is a continuation of that movement where I really now want to coalesce this to say the only way we are going to have change will not come from the consultants. It will not come from the CEOs and the C -suite by itself. It has to come from the grassroots customers, service employees.

contact center agents and retail and everyone who is affected by this system really gathering our voices together and using the tools at our disposal to begin to demand change. And you are seeing it when the federal government starts to threaten legislation, take executive orders and both sides of the aisle are in agreement.

That yeah, this thing is they may disagree on tactics when both the left and the right who cannot agree on anything on what they did. I think if you, if you put a Republican and a Democrat on this call and ask them a simple question, is it Friday, August 16th? There would be arguments about that, but they both agree. The customer service is bad and something needs to be done. I want to go do my part to help.

Rob Dwyer (26:21.68)
Mm -hmm.

Amas Tenumah (26:51.19)
make that a movement by bringing my knowledge in helping this movement go forward.

Rob Dwyer (26:57.304)
You're absolutely right that the companies are not going to do it willingly and I think there is We talked about channels a little bit, but the thing that we haven't talked about is data and part of the reason you brought up I want a customer in my app and that's the only way I want to interact with them for Coupons or special deals or things like that is because I'm collecting data

Amas Tenumah (27:10.243)
Yes.

Rob Dwyer (27:27.13)
getting data. That data is hugely valuable. And so whether it's the fast food chain that is putting the specials in their apps, whether it's the grocery store where their coupons and their loyalty stuff is embedded in the app or any other thing that you use as a customer where you have to get in digitally, like that's the reason an America is woefully behind on data.

Amas Tenumah (27:27.758)
That's it.

Rob Dwyer (27:57.936)
woefully behind. We were just like, ahhh, take my data! Take my data! We're just throwing it out there, man.

Amas Tenumah (28:39.747)
We are, and it's been normalized. think part of why this movement is interesting to me is it's been in the blood so much. We all just kind of complain about it. And I am challenging customers to go, you get the government you deserve, you get the customer service you demand as well. Right? So there's a little bit of like, look, Spain, I'm not saying we should copy a lot of things that's going on in Spain, but

The people rose up, did a referendum three years ago, and it's now against the law to wait on hold more than three minutes. Not saying we need to be that draconic, but that happens because the people were like, yeah, no, we're not, we're not doing that. So I think we have more power, than we think. And the last thing I'll say on this is

The actual data is on our side. Companies are doing this because they perceive the incentives are not lined up for them to focus on this area. It's not because of malice, it's because they've done the thing and said, look, if I put money, time, and resources in customer service, the ROI is nebulous. Someone will not leave me for the next 18 months. I can't report that to Wall Street.

I could spend money on marketing and I'll tell Wall Street that here's a new customer we just got, like tomorrow. So the CX people and the people in this world, we've not done a job of making the case, the financial hard financial case for service and then driving the change necessary in the C -suite that creates an environment.

that allows us to look at the world, not in three month increments, but over the longer term. Like that's the disadvantage you have in service is the thing you're telling the company to write a check for has an ROI of 12 to 18 months. And you're competing with something that has an ROI of 24 hours in ads and in commercials. And that's a dynamic that it is hard work.

Rob Dwyer (30:43.76)
Yeah.

Amas Tenumah (30:50.562)
that needs to change. the first leg of it in my mind, at least the part I want to go focus on is getting that customer swirl of the C suite. And all of us realize, yeah, customers have had enough. And I think we're at the tipping point.

Rob Dwyer (31:06.852)
Yeah, well, I mean, we're starting to see it, I think, with with just pricing, right? And I think we've all continued to spend our money, even though inflation has been at least for our lifetime.

Amas Tenumah (31:12.93)
Thank

Rob Dwyer (31:24.198)
But we've started to pull back and companies are noticing and they are starting to change their pricing because they're going, well, people aren't spending as much anymore. And I think as customers, don't, you know, we forget like we have the power.

Amas Tenumah (31:35.086)
There's a $5 mill. There's a $5 mill in McDonald's. We do. I Rob, there is a $5 mill at McDonald's today. Mill. They told us that was impossible.

Rob Dwyer (31:48.069)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (31:52.31)
They're like, but please come spend some money and they're not the only ones doing that right? It's not just McDonald's. It's Wednesday's is Taco Bell like they're all doing the same thing

Amas Tenumah (31:57.486)
Wendy's, all of them. Everyone. Five dollars in 2024, you get a burger, fries and drink. I was told that couldn't be done.

Rob Dwyer (32:08.376)
And nuggets. And nuggets. Don't forget the nuggets!

Amas Tenumah (32:13.324)
nuggets not a of the nuggets but you know I'd like extra

Rob Dwyer (32:15.32)
Okay, I Look, I you don't you don't need to be a fan. I have to ask you a really serious question You have a podcast the contact center show with Bob furnace and I need to know When Bob retires am I on deck?

Amas Tenumah (32:26.69)
Yes. Yes.

Amas Tenumah (32:34.284)
Well, listen, you have a few things going for you. I found out what the people are talking that you guys kind of look alike and that if you shaved the goatee a little bit, I don't even need to change the name of the show. It could still be contacts on the show with the moss and Bob, roll you in and we just carry on. So yes, the number one thing I'm going for you is your face.

Rob Dwyer (32:57.658)
Yeah. We just cut. OK, we just need to cut a little bit out of that first B so that it's an R. And no one really needs to know. Yeah, even the name.

Amas Tenumah (33:08.468)
even the name. listen, like, I don't need to buy new graphics. I just take a little Sharpie. Like this, this, there has never been a job more tailor -made for you. So, so yeah.

Rob Dwyer (33:24.91)
Okay, I'll talk to Bob about his retirement plans. I have actual serious question. Is Bobby Witt or Aaron Judge gonna win the MVP this year and why?

Amas Tenumah (33:29.176)
Please.

Amas Tenumah (33:40.43)
Well, it's got to be Judge, not just because I'm a Yankee fan. Maybe that's all there is. That might be it. Look, I think he just celebrated fastest of 300 home runs ever. It's not a lifetime achievement award, but as you know, those things. But, but, but, listen.

Rob Dwyer (33:46.711)
I'm so -

Rob Dwyer (34:00.964)
Okay, I'm glad you went ahead and put that out there because it's not a lifetime achievement award. That's not what we're doing for MVP.

Amas Tenumah (34:09.858)
We are selling entertainment here, right? Like, judge sells more tickets.

Rob Dwyer (34:13.392)
Okay.

Rob Dwyer (34:18.172)
I mean, to be fair, he's in a different market. There more tickets to be had.

Amas Tenumah (34:21.978)
He is, Well, well, well, well, well, well, Look at the impact of Aaron Judge when it comes to your, what are you, the Royals? Like when he shows up to your town, he moves box office. The ladies love him. The ladies love the long ball. He is good for business and he's a Yankee. So he's got my vote.

Rob Dwyer (34:46.844)
OK, well. Bobby White is a shortstop. He's going to have a 3030 season. He's if we're talking lifetime achievement, he is about to have another 300 total base season before the age of 25. That will be his third. That puts him with like names like Jimmy Fox. And I know not not a lifetime and but and royals might make the playoffs this year, so.

Amas Tenumah (34:56.184)
but not

Amas Tenumah (35:08.29)
No, listen, listen.

Amas Tenumah (35:17.986)
Listen, he'll be a deserving one. You will not see me protesting if he won. But come on. Judge's gonna win.

Rob Dwyer (35:28.408)
All right. All right. We'll see about that. We'll see.

Amas Tenumah (35:31.48)
We'll see. We'll see.

Rob Dwyer (35:35.194)
I actually do have a serious question. These weren't serious, but it's not so much of a question. I'm curious to understand how you came to be involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters. And I will share with you that I was a little brother in Big Brothers Big Sisters back in the day. And so I'd just like to hear about how you got involved with that organization and just your thoughts in general.

Amas Tenumah (36:03.926)
Yeah, I was a big brother in Oklahoma City. I got introduced into the organization with I was serving on the board here in Oklahoma City at the Memorial volunteering there. man, it was such a phenomenal experience. I didn't think I did anything. And other than show up and I had this this young man in my life and

kept up with him, gosh, it's been 15 years now, he's doing phenomenal, he's moved to Ohio. But anyway, and then when I did a stint in Kansas, I was so, so, so, so, so moved by my experience in Oklahoma City that I got on the board and decided to serve in that different way. Everyone's got their organizations, but...

They are one that's near and dear to my heart because I have seen the impact it has on young people. So it's cool to hear that you were on the other side of it as well.

Rob Dwyer (37:09.884)
Yeah, I had a big brother and big sister. They were married, still are married. And for a time, a photo of us was on the headquarters of big brothers, big sisters, and we're still like full wall size. Like it was huge. It was bigger than life size. we were matched for, at the time I was 10 years old, all the way through graduation.

Amas Tenumah (37:24.238)
That's cool.

Cool.

Rob Dwyer (37:37.972)
Through high school. So yeah, it's a great experience It's an organization near and dear to my heart and when I see people that are involved with it I I love to ask about it. So very cool Okay

Amas Tenumah (37:49.514)
Awesome. That's awesome.

Rob Dwyer (37:53.934)
I don't want to end on a down note, but I do want to talk about the impact that all of the things are having on the agents. We've been talking a lot about customers and we've been talking a lot about C -suite and people that lead CX. And I think we're leaving out some of the most important people in that equation.

Amas Tenumah (37:57.431)
Okay.

Amas Tenumah (38:10.146)
Mmm. Mmm.

Rob Dwyer (38:23.9)
who often get left out, and those are the agents. Just give me your thoughts on that, particularly as we introduce AI and more and more things to, I think, some people think try to replace them.

Amas Tenumah (38:42.446)
I'm glad you brought this up. It's a job I've done. I put on that headset. I've worked in retail. And so it's a crowd I like to speak on their behalf. When I was fortunate enough to be on, whether it was NPR and NBC, I think I said a quote to a reporter that if you think companies treat customers badly, wait till you hear about how they treat their...

service employees, particularly those in the contact center. It is 2024. It's always been a knowledge job. It's always been a white collar job. It's the only job I know of where we track how many minutes they spend in the bathroom. It's the only job I know of where we track every second of everything they do. A few months ago, Microsoft got a little bit of heat because they said they're new.

Windows then tracks everything you do on your operating system. And people are like, my gosh, the privacy, it's recording, taking snapshots of everything I do on my computer, the horror. And I'm like, contacts and agents, who, anyone who's listening to me, who wants a job where they record every word that comes out of your mouth?

Rob Dwyer (39:52.554)
Hahaha

Amas Tenumah (40:04.714)
Most of you will get fired within two hours if that ever happened. And so they don't have the tools. know, you go to the airlines, you're on this beautiful website and app and you place the deal and then you need service. Just look at the gate agent. She doesn't even own a mouse. She's using some blue screen, punching their way in there. I can go on and I do think, and now there's AI and

We keep waiting for, was going to be a single agent desktop with this white knight that was going to save and none of it has worked. And now it's AI. And what is your new idea? Hey, we think we don't need the agents anymore, as opposed to my gosh, we've got this new powerful technology. And I am not bullish about a lot of things, but I'm bullish that this technology can be part of the solution that makes this job a job that is worthy. I ask the questions of executives.

I would say to them, do you want your child to make a career out of working in the contact center? I've been asking that question for years. I'm yet to hear a yes. I've heard, maybe they will start here. Why do you not think this job is worthy of a career? Why do you not think this job is the path to the CEO's office? And this is the only job in your organization whose entire job

is to build emotional connections with your customers who paid the bills. And the way we have been treating this and the insulting pizza parties and gift cards, it reminds me of, you know, those bad steak houses that give you the A1 sauce before the steak arrives and says, you're not going to want to taste this meat. You're not going to like this job, but there will be food. Fix the damn job. Like fix the job.

And I hope that when we get out of this stupor of chatbots with AI, we turn this power and really I'm optimistic. I'm adding on an optimistic note. I'm optimistic that we have an opportunity with the tools we really have to make this job a phenomenal job again.

Rob Dwyer (42:20.476)
Yeah, I 100 % agree. I think we can do it. It's just going to take the collective will of companies. Number one, to recognize that people are the lifeblood of your company. Just give them tools to help them do a great job instead of going, how can I get rid of the people? Because no one's going to build an emotional connection with your AI or

Amas Tenumah (42:36.044)
Yep. them. Trust them.

Rob Dwyer (42:49.562)
We've seen the movies Amas like it's not like that's not a healthy emotional connection that we build with AI. It's bad. Like let's can we stop? Can we not do that? That would be bad. Please let's stop.

Amas Tenumah (42:52.334)
and end well.

Rob Dwyer (43:05.21)
Alright Amas, you've been amazing. I am so glad that. We've had this opportunity to chat. I know that I could continue to talk with you about this stuff for hours and while you and I might be entertained by that, some people might be like enough guys. Please turn it off. Shut it down so we're going to shut it down.

Amas Tenumah (43:28.492)
No, I, I agree. I, I.

Amas Tenumah (43:34.716)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a phenomenal conversation. Hope you invite me back.