Ritual featuring Mercer Smith

Transcript

Rob Dwyer (00:01.814)
Mercer Smith, you are Next in Queue. Welcome to the show. How are you?

Mercer Smith (00:07.743)
I'm doing really well, how are you?

Rob Dwyer (00:10.117)
I am fantastic. I asked you to come onto the show really for something a little different than what we normally do. It's that time of year. There are a lot of people celebrating, practicing rituals in their personal lives, in their professional lives. And I thought it would be nice to have you on the show for us to...

explore rituals in a little bit different way. And so that's what we're going to do today. But first, not everybody knows who you are, even though they probably should. If they're listening to this show, they probably should, but I'm sure we get new people all the time. So tell us just a quick little bit about you.

Mercer Smith (01:00.386)
Yeah, so my name is Mercer Smith. I'm the VP of CX Insights and Community at PartnerHero. I also run our CX Transformation org, which is basically support operations for your team. So we do everything from administrate help desk and manage knowledge-based tooling and update knowledge bases all the way through to building in AI automation, bots, all of that good stuff. And I live in Austin.

with my zoo of children and hairless cats. Ha ha ha.

Rob Dwyer (01:37.445)
It is a brave person that has hairless cats. I don't I don't really understand this But perhaps someday you and I can have a conversation about how that works

Mercer Smith (01:40.958)
I'm sorry.

Mercer Smith (01:48.75)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, happy to.

Rob Dwyer (01:52.201)
Uh, I actually before we get into it, I have a question for you. What is your problem with Life is a Highway?

Mercer Smith (01:59.175)
Mm-hmm.

Mercer Smith (02:06.358)
That song is like the glitter of, not in a good way, in a really bad way, right? When you hear it once, it doesn't go away, just like glitter. We have a craft closet and the glitter is way up high because if my kids get to it, it's everywhere forever and you cannot be rid of it. And that is my problem with Life is a Highway. And I will stand by that fact.

Rob Dwyer (02:33.705)
It's like the sand in your underpants when you go to the beach. It just can't get rid of it.

Mercer Smith (02:36.41)
Yes. I do have a pro tip for getting rid of the sand in your in your shorts after the beach. But yes, very similar.

Rob Dwyer (02:46.937)
Okay, I just I had to ask now I do I need to clarify is it the song in general? Is it the Tom Cochran version or the Rascal Flatts version or it doesn't matter. It's just the song and it's problematic either way.

Mercer Smith (03:07.986)
It doesn't matter really. And I think it's because I grew up at a time when that song was also just everywhere, right? Like, I think it was the Rascal Flatts version which was everywhere, which checks out because Rascal Flatts was also just everywhere at that stage in time. But it's just so like catchy and I don't want it to be. Like I don't want it to be in my head.

Rob Dwyer (03:34.523)
I. I'm going to age myself just a little bit and say I feel the exact same way about the Tom Cochran version, because that's the version that I grew up with and. I feel exactly the same way about that song. It's super catchy. And annoyingly so, like you just don't want it to be. But enough about that.

Mercer Smith (03:55.99)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (04:02.43)
Let's talk about something else entirely. Congratulations. I understand that you have maybe put the finishing touches on a book, and you are soon to be a published author. Is that true?

Mercer Smith (04:19.338)
Yes, yes, I was just talking to the publisher today about just like finishing formatting touches and all of that. And yes, I am about to bring a little book child out into the world in January. And I'm so excited.

Rob Dwyer (04:36.193)
I am excited as well. What can you tell us about the book? You don't have to spoil anything. I'm sure everyone's going to want to get a copy, but what can you tell us about it?

Mercer Smith (04:46.598)
Yeah, I think the best thing I can say is that it's meant to kind of like, be an artifact almost. Like, I envision people having this book on their desk, and you know, when they have like a question or they're thinking about something, they can kind of open up and flip it through. And like, maybe even when they leave their job or they like, give it their give, they give their job to somebody else on their team, they're like, here, may I bequeath unto you this book?

that I've been using for the past three years to guide my CX best practices. And the other thing I can say is that I wrote it as a very typical business book with just straight up instructions and a lot of, you know, lots of detail and case studies and things like that. And all of my beta readers were like, I know that you have...

personality and I know that you're really funny, can you bring like your anecdotes and your stories to this? So now there's a lot of kind of wacky mercerisms in there as well. So if you're into that then there's also plenty of that thanks to my beta readers.

Rob Dwyer (05:55.913)
Good, that's good. I think that will make the book infinitely better.

Mercer Smith (06:01.233)
Thank you.

Rob Dwyer (06:02.853)
So I have to imagine that the art of writing a book is very much a ritual. Can you talk to us about your personal writing ritual and what that means to you and how it makes you feel?

Mercer Smith (06:24.39)
Yeah, that's a great question. So I got told this in my master's program. I got my master's in creative nonfiction back in 2010, which is wild to think about. And my teacher at that time, I was like, well, you know, I don't always feel like writing. And sometimes I just sit down and I'll write for like 10 hours and then I won't write for a week. And he was like, no, no.

No, you can't do that. You need to sit down every day and have the intention to write, right? Whether you are actually doing it, like if you're just staring at the screen or you're like writing up a storm, it doesn't matter. You need to dedicate a section of your time to this thing that you say you're doing because you're not doing it if you're not doing it. He was like, you can't call yourself a writer if you're not dedicating time every day to...

sit and do this thing, whether you're actually doing it or not. And so I definitely let go of that for a few years when I was not so much writing and was doing a lot of support and strategy and things like that. And then it came back around probably a few years ago when I started writing a lot of blog posts and kind of content across the CX and support space. And then especially when it came to writing this book.

Mercer Smith (07:51.71)
nothing would come out. Like for instance, the last chapter of the book until probably a few months ago was like, I don't know what to write here. Maybe this will be a story. Maybe this will be someone else's story. I don't know. And it was basically just me talking to myself, right. And I think it was definitely the practice of sitting down to do it. That made me

commit more energy, both mental and physical, to the act of doing it. Because I knew every day I was going to do it. So I emotionally had prepared myself to do it. I had thought of things in my brain. I was like, no, okay, we're gonna table that until writing time. Let's write then. That is the time for writing. And I think having that level of ritual and doing those things over and over and over again is so important to us as humans.

especially in the discombobulation that has happened in the world, you know, I think being able to come back to a grounded space, whether it be writing or something with your family or something professionally, is really, really important. And for me as like an anxious type A person, it was especially important and gave me a space to feel safe, whether I actually wrote something or I just talked to myself on a Google doc for an hour.

Rob Dwyer (09:16.513)
I love that you brought up just the grounding aspect of that. I feel like we live in a world where there is so much chaos. And I don't mean that where we are today is any different than where we were a hundred years ago. I just mean the existence of being a human is chaotic. The unexpected happens regularly to all of us. And

We spend a lot of the day just trying to navigate our way through that chaos. And I believe that ritualism is a way for us to just kind of escape that and have something that we know, to some degree, how we're going to approach it, exactly how it's going to go down. The results may be different.

but it is a way for us to just kind of settle in.

Mercer Smith (10:21.658)
Yeah, I also think like rituals are a way for us to choose what we can and can't control, right? Like, as humans, we are tiny, tiny in the grand scheme of things. And so being able to say like, this is my nighttime ritual, or this is my writing ritual, or this is what I do every day when I come to work is really empowering.

because it allows us to feel like we have like lassoed some of that infinity for ourselves. I think that's why I lean so heavily into ritual and all things just and repetitive natures. Like I'm perpetually doing things over and over and over again, day by day.

Rob Dwyer (10:56.689)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (11:10.913)
It is absolutely a way for people to remain calm in the chaos, for sure. Let's talk a little bit about maybe some creative rituals. I know that you, like me, are a LEGO fan. LEGO building can certainly be ritualistic.

Mercer Smith (11:34.797)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (11:40.681)
Talk to me a little bit about some of the rituals that you use.

Mercer Smith (11:45.902)
Yes, yes I can. I have two that come to mind. I also have like, I'm surrounded by Lego, you cannot see. Maybe I'll bring this one over. Let's see, this is my favorite, the Orchid set. I really love it. I have all of the plant ones on my desk and then all of the structural run ones just around my office. But my personal ritual when it comes to Lego and...

Sorry for a brief tangent, but I actually ask this in any interview I do, I say, if someone were to hand you a box of Lego, what would you do with it? And it's really interesting to see what people say because everyone has a ritual. Everyone has something that they do with Lego, whether it's been a million years, or they do it with their kids, or they do it on their own. Anyway, returning to my ritual, I open a bag.

and I look at the first page of the instructions if I'm building a pre-built set, and I pull all of the pieces that I need for that whole page, whether there's one step or several, so that I have them, and then I kind of line them up by size and shape so that I can go through the instructions pretty easily. So that's my personal Lego ritual, but...

My partner and I, when we are co-building a Lego set, which has happened frequently because we invest in large Lego sets because we are adults and are able to choose how to spend our income, we will swap bags. So I will do bag one, and then when I am done, he does bag two, and then when he is done, I do bag three, and so on and so forth. And we've completed several sets this way, and it feels like a really nice.

like collaborative way to enjoy the set together, especially because our way of building is very different and he does not like my method of building. So when we try to do it together, it's kind of like, ah. But that's been really nice. We usually do that around the holidays. So like, you know, the home alone house was built as an advent calendar.

Mercer Smith (13:58.21)
So there's 25 bags in the set, even though there doesn't need to be 25 bags. And so we went back and forth on that, building that collaboratively. In Hogwarts we built collaboratively, and the Upside Down we built collaboratively. It's a really nice way to connect over something that we can also engage in separately.

Rob Dwyer (14:20.273)
Yeah. A lot of rituals are passed down through family. That's where we learn the ritual, regardless of what that ritual entails.

How do you go about building with your kids? I assume they're old enough to build. How does that process work for you? And are you intentional about that, or is it just pretty organic?

Mercer Smith (14:56.522)
Yeah, do you mean building Lego or building ritual? Because build could mean both. Was that intentional? Ha ha ha.

Rob Dwyer (15:03.361)
I'm going to let you interpret that question and answer it however you feel like answering it.

Mercer Smith (15:09.378)
Yeah, I'll answer. I'll answer both. I mean, I couldn't wait until my eldest son was old enough to build Lego, right? Like, I had been trying for years to be like, let's build a set together, bud, you want to build a set? And he'd be like, sure. And then we'd sit down and then he'd be like, No, I don't want to build a set. And he just wanted to kind of build his own thing.

And so we kind of started this ritual of like storytelling with Lego. Um, so I'd be like, okay, Malcolm, let's tell a story together. And I'd be like, one day there was a crocodile. And so we'd build a crocodile, like a little crocodile out of Duplo or whatever. And then I'd be like, okay, what happens next? And he'd be like, well, then the crocodile found a rainbow.

And so then we'd build a rainbow. And we would like, as we were telling this collaborative story, we would build all the whole thing out of Duplo or Legos or whatever. And that has carried through bedtime. That's like not just a Lego ritual now. That's like at any time it's just the two of us and we have some time to spend together. He's like, so once upon a time there was a hippopotamus named Henry and he did. And he's like, what did he do, mama? And I'm like, what did he do? Let's figure this out and tell that story together. And I love that.

I have like so many recordings on my phone of it. I do this like kind of, maybe kind of creepy thing where I record people that I love doing things like telling stories or like if they do something a lot, I'll like find a way to record them doing it. I interview my dad once a week to get his stories because he's getting older. And so I build ritual around that. And I think I like that Malcolm is doing that as well. And I guess like,

in the way of building ritual ritual, which I think is important for all human beings to do collaboratively with other humans, whether children or otherwise. That's also through storytelling, right? So like something we do as we're coming into the holidays, I think about it a lot, is at New Year's at midnight or 10, if you are feeling so inclined. Um.

Rob Dwyer (17:26.849)
talking about I stay up till midnight every year.

Mercer Smith (17:30.758)
You know, I used to try and I just, it's not for me anymore. But so sometimes I'll like watch the ball drop from Australia and like tell my kids that it's midnight. But we jump off of the furniture into the new year. So like two minutes before midnight, we like climb up onto the couch or a table or whatever the kids want to climb up onto. It's like a once a year thing where I'm like, sure. You want to climb on the table? Go ahead. You want to climb on the kitchen island? You do that.

And then we jump off into the new year thinking like, okay, we're seizing the new year and we're jumping into it together. And that's all around storytelling, right? Like those rituals get handed down from family members because of stories that they tell. Like my stepmom, who we got this from, is like told stories about her and her siblings doing it and how meaningful it was to them. And I think that the power of story...

And like attachment of meaning to rituals is probably one of the best ways to carry it through. That was a very rambling answer to your question.

Rob Dwyer (18:33.825)
I love that. It reminded me of a New Year's ritual that we have in our family. And one of them, we have quite a few, but one of them is what we engage in really all evening is watching the Twilight Zone. And it is, it's sometimes a challenge, right? Finding where we can find Twilight Zone.

Mercer Smith (18:51.775)
I love that.

Rob Dwyer (19:00.273)
to watch it now that we're in this streaming age and things move from this place to that place. And when you talk about that meaningfulness, when you are unable to engage in those specific rituals, it feels like something is lost. You can't get it. And.

It's not something that's easily replaced or substituted for. And that seems like a very human thing that...

We want to continue those traditions and rituals, whatever they are. And as, um, as silly as they may seem to outsiders, which is actually part of what defines a ritual, right? It is a thing for an in group. It is a thing for your family or your clan or your religion or whatever that to

doesn't necessarily make sense. And they can't readily understand why you do something. But to that in group, it has this sometimes undefinable meaning associated with it that only that group understands. And it could be two people. It could be a rather large group, but that's what a ritual does. And it's pretty amazing how we

gravitate towards those things.

Mercer Smith (20:43.174)
Yeah. And as you were like saying that, it brought to mind, you know, so many people when they like leave their family of origin and are either spending holidays with their chosen family, or like a new family that they're just starting, there's this real urge to like, what are we gonna do? What are our rituals? And that's such an interesting thing. And then I was thinking

as a leader, I've hopped from business to business as a leader and it's like, what rituals do I try to bring with me? What rituals do I leave behind? How does the team adopt those rituals if I try to bring them or are they just like, no, I do not feel like doing this. Like it's such an interesting thing. And I wonder if you like experienced that when you were starting your own family, like.

How did you deal with that desire to start your own rituals while also still maintaining some semblance of normalcy from like a past existence?

Rob Dwyer (21:54.193)
Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think we're always trying to integrate what we know and cling to with what we want to create that's new. And I know that I did that with my family. It's you're taking really two people and what they know, which may or may not be completely aligned.

You're trying to integrate those things. And then also, what's going to be ours? What are we doing that's different, that we can pass down? And I love that you brought up moving from business to business, because you have been a number of different places. You were at Wistia, and Atlassian, and Trello.

Rob Dwyer (22:51.205)
Two parts. What was the most successful thing that you brought as a ritual from one place to another? And what was the least successful? Like it just didn't work.

Rob Dwyer (23:08.433)
Hehehe

Mercer Smith (23:11.497)
Yes, so I do something called ticket taboo, which effectively, and I don't do this at Partner Hero because my lead my purview is not directly on individual contributors anymore, right? Like I'm managing, managing directors and VPs. But every time that I've

run an IC team or been close enough to the IC team to do something like this. We do like a round robin. One person brings a ticket that they've had or a conversation that they've had, and they just bring the customer inquiry. They don't give any tips about how they handled it. They don't give any context for how it ended. They just bring the ticket and then everyone on the team takes like 15 minutes to answer it separately in the way that they would answer it.

And then we all read it together. And we talk about like, okay, so what happened in this ticket then, Biff, if you brought it. So then Biff goes down and he's like, well, you know, I responded this way and then the customer got grumpy and then I responded this way. And then in the end, it turns out that the customer actually wanted this. And then we read everyone else's responses with the caveat being like, you can't change your response at all. And see,

the different tones and styles, how they handled it, like what did they address first? What did they address last? Was there anything that they like totally didn't address at all and why? And we kind of learn from each other's styles and habits of responding and kind of pick up some best practices. So I've done that at several companies now because it was so effective and enjoyable, right? Like people enjoy seeing.

how other people answer. And there's also a level of vulnerability and trust that goes into this because you're kind of exposing your hand when you're like, yeah, this customer was angry at me. It didn't go well. I wanna see how other people responded. You know, it makes an impact there. And then the least successful thing that I've ever brought is anything related to tagging. If anyone has a way to build ritual around how to tag a ticket,

Rob Dwyer (25:15.53)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (25:28.765)
Ha ha!

Mercer Smith (25:31.502)
please someone for the love of everything, tell me what it is, because I've even gone so far. At AppCues, I built an automation in our help desk where if someone hadn't added a tag, it reopened the ticket, assigned it back to them, and added a GIF from Jurassic Park, which was like, ah, you forgot the magic word, which was like the most annoying thing.

I'm sure for my team to receive, they thought they'd powered through their queue and then they go back and see they've got 15 assigned tickets with that GIF, which I'm sure they hated by the end of their time there. So yeah, I don't have any rituals for that. And anything I've tried just has not worked. So that's my second answer there.

Rob Dwyer (26:24.637)
For those listening on Spotify, I think I'm just gonna set up a Q&A on Spotify. I would love for people to just put their solutions there, or maybe we'll have this clip on LinkedIn and we can have people pile on with their rituals for tagging. I think that would be fantastic.

Mercer Smith (26:46.054)
I would love to hear, I think we need to ask, what's your ritual and like, how long has it actually been successful? Because I feel like you can have like a successful method for like three to four months and fool yourself into thinking like, oh yeah, this works, I'm in the clear. And then it doesn't. So if people are answering, I also wanna know how long it's been going and working for them.

Rob Dwyer (26:53.397)
Right?

Rob Dwyer (27:02.847)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (27:12.049)
I'm excited to try out this experiment and see what we can come up with. We may solve a huge problem out there in the world just from this conversation and other people's solutions.

Mercer Smith (27:16.183)
Hahaha

Mercer Smith (27:23.158)
That would be amazing. That'd be amazing.

Rob Dwyer (27:27.453)
I want to talk a little bit about physical ritual. I understand maybe you've done some yoga in the past.

Mercer Smith (27:36.718)
Yeah, just a little bit. Just a little bit of yoga. Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (27:40.905)
Can you talk about that and talk about the ritual that goes along with that?

Mercer Smith (27:47.31)
Totally. So for those of you that don't know me, you don't know that I have like the most advanced yoga teacher training that you could possibly have, which is an ERYT 500, which means I've taught over 2000 hours of classes, and I've done 500 hours of in-depth training on anatomy, and I've also been doing, I've been teaching yoga for 13 years.

now. So yeah, so I think I started doing yoga. I was working remotely for a company called Campaign Monitor. They were in Australia. It was the middle of winter in Boston. I was experiencing like a deep seasonal depression because I was working at like four o'clock in the morning to talk to my Australian colleagues and I needed something to go and speak to other human beings. So I joined a local yoga studio and I started going.

just so that I could be around people and like absorb their human energy, but not have to talk to them because I'm a deeply anxious person. And so I was like, I just need to see people and know that they exist and like, I'm here with them in space, but I don't wanna have to talk to them. And then eventually, you know, it became like an everyday thing. I would go, I would see the same people. Classes always start and end the same way, right?

and reconnecting to your breath in that physical space as an anxious person, as a person that just wants to like share space with other humans was really powerful for me because you're literally breathing the same air as these people around you, right? And you're breathing heavily because if you go to some of these classes, it's like, it's a really hard workout. It's warm and you're like trying to hold these poses and you're huffing and puffing and sweating everywhere. And like, it's just a very human.

thing and like hearing myself say all of this I'm like, ma, COVID. But this is a time pre-COVID when I was like, yes, sweat on me other humans. And I just like, it was so meaningful for me that I wanted to bring it to others as well. So I started doing teacher training. And I started connecting to a community and

Rob Dwyer (29:44.969)
Hehehehe

Mercer Smith (30:07.23)
you know, I heard from a lot of people like, I don't look like your typical yoga teacher, I don't act like your typical yoga teacher, I am definitely not like the standard person that you think of when you think of yoga. And that was even more meaningful for me, because it meant that I was opening up this physical practice and ability to connect and create ritual to people who otherwise felt like they were uninvited, right?

Rob Dwyer (30:33.987)
Mm.

Mercer Smith (30:35.666)
And so that made the ritual even more powerful because I knew the people that were coming to my classes and choosing to breathe with me and choosing to spend their physical energy with me were doing so because of a deeper connection outside of just like, I wanna stretch my body today, right? And I think that's one of the most powerful things that we do with ritual is again, creating that connection with the community and humans around us.

Even if it's just like a personal ritual, there's still some level of connection to a more grounded human aspect.

Rob Dwyer (31:11.689)
Can you talk about what that ritual does for focus? Because I feel like we're very much, I know I struggle with this at times that there are distractions all over. There's all kinds of different things that I'm bouncing from this thing to that thing. But yoga in particular, I have found is one way to really drive focus. Can you speak to that?

Mercer Smith (31:41.126)
Yeah. And I think, you know, I think a lot of it is dependent on the person how this manifests, right. But for me, the way that it drives focus is like

a reassurance that I can do hard things, or like an understanding that nothing is forever, right? So in yoga, there are like, there's like warrior one, warrior two, warrior three, which is basically just like standing in a lunge. And in some classes, they'll have you hold this for like five minutes. And there is no...

deeper existential angst that I have ever felt than at like four minutes in a room that's like 102 degrees and like 60% humidity holding this pose, right? And your brain is like, I cannot do this. I cannot do this. But then you're checking in with your body and you're like, yeah, I can. I can do this for a little bit longer. Let's like focus on the breath. Let's focus on what the ground feels like beneath my feet. Let's focus on.

Like even the, well, like if your shoulders are burning, like let's focus on that burn. Like what is the quality of that? And I was then able to bring that into my life outside of yoga. Like, okay, stuff really goes down in the queue and you've got like 5,000 tickets. Okay, that's terrible. I mean, not for some people, some people get that every day, but like, you know, at a SaaS company where your volume is normally pretty low.

You come into 5,000 tickets, you're like, what happened? And so take a second, right? Like take a second and you sit and you feel your feet like flat on the floor. I'm adjusting them as I'm saying this. And you're like, okay, I can move my toes. I'll take some breaths. I can like feel what's happening in my body. I can notice that I'm feeling anxious. Like.

Mercer Smith (33:46.674)
and you kind of are able to ground yourself a little bit more. So I don't even know that it's necessarily the ritual of yoga, as much as the ritual, you get to exacerbate the ritual of what you do when things get hard and you need to continue and really practice that in a space where it's just you, like you are the only person in yoga. There is no other competition. Everyone else is just trying to survive. No one is paying attention to what you're doing.

Rob Dwyer (34:12.829)
Hehehehe

Mercer Smith (34:15.046)
You know, and it's just you and you, which I think is really difficult and really empowering and really beautiful if you stick with it.

Rob Dwyer (34:29.634)
I love that.

So before we wrap things up on this most unique and I think enlightening of episodes, is there anything that you wanted to share that we haven't had a chance to talk about that has come into your mind as we've been talking through rituals?

Mercer Smith (34:53.206)
Yeah, I think so. You know, a lot of people say to me, like, I don't know how you find the time. I don't have the time to do all of that. I don't have the time. And it's not about having the time, it's about choosing the time, right? Like, everyone has all the time that they need to do the things that they care about.

And I really truly believe that. So if you're saying that you wish you had the time to do something, the fact of the matter might be that you don't actually, because if you do, like prioritize it, find a way to make it happen, right? Like a good example of this is I'm super busy. I have two kids, one on the way. I've got a million animals as I already stated.

I work a job as an executive at a company where we get 7.3 million tickets a month. I'm pretty busy, you know? But every single morning, I make time to snuggle with my boys. And I go and I wake up my older son and I get into bed with him and we talk about his morning and I snuggle with the baby when he wakes up and I count his little fingers and his little toes.

I could easily say like, I don't have the time for this. I need to make breakfast. I need to pack up the backpacks. I need to like check my schedule. But like, I choose to do that. And anyone else can choose to do these things too. And yeah, you might have to get up earlier or you might have to stop doing something else. But if you're really gonna say like, I wish I had time, I will challenge you.

to make it.

Rob Dwyer (36:56.105)
Thank you. That is amazing advice and I think that's a great challenge for everyone out there. Oh look, we've got a visitor.

Rob Dwyer (37:10.173)
That cat seems to be missing some fur. I'm just saying.

Mercer Smith (37:12.762)
Yeah, she's yes, she has zero, zero for, sorry that she came to join us on that. She was like, see, make time for me.

Rob Dwyer (37:18.509)
No, I love it. That's right. We've made time. Mercer, namaste. Thank you so much for joining me on Next In Queue today.

Mercer Smith (37:31.51)
Thank you for having me.