Ruin is the Road to Transformation featuring Kassy LaBorie

Transcript

Rob Dwyer (00:01.582)
Cassie Labore, thank you for being next in queue for the second time. Return guest, how are you?

Kassy LaBorie (00:10.554)
What an honor. I'm so well. Thank you for having me again, Rob. I'm excited.

Rob Dwyer (00:14.954)
It's been a long, long time. A couple of years have passed. You were one of my very first guests, like number three or number five, something like that. So it's been a couple of years. And I don't know. I don't know.

Kassy LaBorie (00:31.478)
How did that happen so quickly? Oh my goodness. Seems like just a moment ago.

Rob Dwyer (00:38.63)
I hope that in those two plus years that I've figured out a little bit more about what the heck I'm doing here with this podcast, but time will tell. Maybe that's not true.

Kassy LaBorie (00:50.278)
You knew what you were doing right from the get-go. It was an honor to be your guest then, and it remains so today.

Rob Dwyer (00:56.614)
Well, I appreciate that. This is a special New Year's episode. We are almost to New Year's and those who are listening may have just celebrated New Year's or it's just around the corner. And New Year's is often a time that we think about making changes. We have resolutions, some of which are.

doomed to failure, but we often take stock and we think about doing something new. And that's what I wanna talk about with you today. But before we do that, let's learn a little bit about Cassie. You're a two-time author. People may remember you from the show, but tell us a little bit about you.

Kassy LaBorie (01:51.926)
Hmm, thank you for asking. I teach people how to connect in a remote world. And I have done that through the lens of learning and development for the last 25 years, teaching people how to do virtual training, the instructional design of virtual training, and also the production or technical support side of that as well. And so I've worked for myself for the last six plus years. I've also worked with Dale Carnegie and WebEx.

And I got my start as a technical trainer, who then moved into the people side of training, which actually was where I always wanted to go. But, you know, roll it way back when it was easier to get the tech job than the, you know, people job. So I'm on the people side of it today though. And, you know, the events surrounding March of 2020 really changed the work that I do. People are much more interested in

Rob Dwyer (02:38.647)
Yeah.

Kassy LaBorie (02:49.43)
How do we work online effectively and not hate it? And that not only made my business more a focus and interesting to people, but it also helped me to look at where exactly am I headed and what do I wanna do with it as the future continues to unfold.

Rob Dwyer (03:06.75)
Yeah, and you have the virtual training superheroes, which is one of my favorite things. You bring a lot of joy and fun, but for a reason, interaction into the virtual space. And so if anyone is just looking for ways to do that, if you're training virtually, I highly encourage you to go check out Cassie's website, check out her books.

because there's lots of ideas right there and she's got resources on the website. So just do that.

Kassy LaBorie (03:43.99)
Thanks for mentioning. The heroes are a happy place for me. The people who make up the virtual training hero community, but then also just the actual characters themselves and all the things that we have done with them. New things that we did last year and then when they took flight in early 2020, actually, the timing was so perfect on the heroes. It was amazing.

Rob Dwyer (03:44.478)
But, yeah.

Rob Dwyer (04:10.594)
was. You mentioned how 2020 kind of changed things for you, but over the last year plus, I would say, things are also changing for you. Can you walk me through your journey of what it was like early 2020 when I imagine the demand

for your services shot through the roof and kind of where we are as we get through into 2023 and what that journey's been like.

Kassy LaBorie (04:53.822)
Well, I spent my entire career since the late 90s trying to convince people that working online, training online specifically, and using these online technologies was as effective as working and training in person. And all of that time, there were people who were listening, but most of the time it was a side gig for them.

or it was that department that needed to do that and so we'll let them do their thing. For the many people that I worked with all the way up from the late 90s through 2020 that learned about it, many of them were like, whoa, why wasn't I paying attention? But it wasn't until March of 2020 that people had no other choice. And so what was, hey, I'm over here on the side, listen to this, became...

everyone coming at me all at once and wanting all things. What didn't change is that everybody at that time, and I'm saying everybody loosely, people that were communicating with me and generally speaking, they thought if they learned how to use the technology, then all of their problems would be solved, or that A, first, if they had the proper technology and then they learned how to use it, then connecting and working and being productive, innovative, creative, collaborative, all the things would just fall into place from there.

but what we've quickly learned and as we move into, you know, 2024 where we are today, it isn't that. The technology does not create all of that. It only enables it and it's on us to make decisions about, I think first our mindset and then what we choose to do to actively connect with people. It goes back to old fashioned relationship building and how one conducts oneself among other people. And I think one of the biggest barriers is seeing

yourself or viewing yourself as actually with other people even though you might be using technology to do that.

Rob Dwyer (06:58.166)
Hmm. So let's talk about doing some new things because you have spent the last year kind of prepping yourself to do something new. Number one, what inspired that? And then what has that process been like for you?

Kassy LaBorie (07:24.267)
I love talking about this so much. It's very exciting. And so as we are in the beginning of a new year here, it was last year where I decided I need to do something new and different, probably prompted by how many people were now doing what I was previously doing.

Rob Dwyer (07:41.477)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (07:42.818)
where I mentioned people weren't necessarily listening. They were only listening if they had to, or if someone said, you should check this out, became everyone doing it. And so what that means is that everyone's gonna come in and do it in their way. And new consultants, new businesses, new speakers, new technologies, all focused on the things that I've been doing, which is completely amazing. But at the same time, then you say, well, where's my place and what do I wanna do? How will I differentiate? Where am I headed?

And I am the kind of person who wants to be positive about it and to create community and say, Oh, wow, this is so great. You're finally here. But I'm not gonna lie and tell you that that's what my initial reaction was. I am human. You know, I had some moments of, Wait, wait a second. You're listening now and you're going to take over and do it yourself?

Rob Dwyer (08:31.95)
Hahaha

Kassy LaBorie (08:35.398)
I've been doing this a long time. You know, this is just human reaction to things. And so it gave me an opportunity to say, where am I headed and what do I really wanna do? And something I have always wanted to do from the time that I was probably in high school was to get on the keynote stage and figure out how, what, and probably a whole lot of why, you know, mixed up into that. And my entire career has been so...

Rob Dwyer (08:39.471)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (09:04.778)
focused on technology and training using technology, that when I have done keynote speeches before, which I have, I've always felt like that there was something missing, that it wasn't quite right. Now this did not come from the audience and this didn't come from the people who had hired me. I don't think I've let anyone down. It was me and just my own beliefs around what I think I would like for a keynote.

Rob Dwyer (09:18.996)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (09:32.974)
message or speech to be. And so I set out on a journey to discover the answer to that because it's been a question that I've had for years and I didn't know the answer. How do I do or how do I say or what's the point of the work that I have been doing at a keynote level? And that's when I came across a book. I published the second edition of my first book in September of 2022

Rob Dwyer (09:50.442)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (10:02.03)
And as I was researching who I would work with, that publicist, the one that I ended up choosing, ended up having a whole bunch of other books, of course, that they were working on. And one of those books happened to be the answer to the question that I'd been seeking for years. And I know that book, I love this book. And it's, business books are not, for me, the easiest thing to read. I tend to like flip through the parts that I need. I'm not like...

Rob Dwyer (10:17.771)
And what's that book?

Kassy LaBorie (10:29.446)
You know, I need like a fixed, like a fantasy escapism book to get through it from cover to cover. Okay, I'm gonna just the truth. So anyway, this book, though I read in one day, cover to cover, I couldn't put it down. It is called The Referrable Speaker. And it is authored by Michael Port and Andrew Davis. The book had the answers that I'd been seeking. Do you know it?

Rob Dwyer (10:48.371)
I actually.

I actually just put that on my Amazon wishlist last week. So it's interesting that you are now fully endorsing that. So we'll put a link in the show notes just to that book. So, okay, so you get the book, you read it. What kind of answers did you find in that?

Kassy LaBorie (11:15.322)
Yeah, the answers that I was looking for is why doesn't my keynote feel like a keynote? And interestingly, it was specifically written to answer that question for me when you are... What I basically learned, and this is all Andrew and Michael, and I just thank them for clarifying this for me, but the basic thing what I learned is that when you are a subject matter

Rob Dwyer (11:20.547)
Hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (11:45.086)
became through my career, you help people do things differently. I'm a trainer, I create workshops, I deliver workshops, and I help you perform in your job, in your role, so that you can do your job. Yes, correct. Why has that felt strange on a keynote stage? Because keynote speakers or thought leaders or

transformational people, people that give us transformational speeches, at least the kind of keynote that I would like to be doing. They do not necessarily teach people how to do things differently as a lead. They focus on teaching or helping people to think differently, to see the world differently. And

The other two key things, so there's you got do and then you got think and of course they go together because when you think differently you do things differently. And if you see something done differently, it changes how you think. So of course it goes together, but as a lead and when you start. So to simplify it, trainers teach us to do things, you know, a speaker, a professional speaker on a large keynote stage is helping you to think and see the world differently. And trainers have the answer. Here's what you do.

speech, these public speakers keynote speeches do not necessarily have the answer. They have questions and they have potential ideas of ways to do it differently, but they're not up there necessarily saying do this, do that. They're offering an alternative worldview that perhaps we haven't thought of before.

Rob Dwyer (13:16.58)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (13:25.931)
Yeah.

Kassy LaBorie (13:33.446)
So after I read this book, I went on a journey to explore what that might mean for me and started asking myself questions of, if I'm teaching you all that I have taught you about virtual training specifically, what does it mean? What will the world look like? What is...

What's wrong? Why is it not working? Why are we struggling? And what might be the answer to what we could do differently? And that's the journey that I've been on this whole last year and I went into a grad program that Michael Port runs with Andrew Davis, who's now a partner, but also with his wife, Amy Port. They have a company called Heroic Public Speaking. And I went through their whole grad program from for the whole year of 2023 of writing an in-depth

Rob Dwyer (14:05.774)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (14:28.298)
transformational speech, the whole process for how you do that. And that took three and a half months, one speech. And it still needs more writing by the way. And then there was the stage performance side of it that took another three and a half months. Performing on stage and learning to make very specific decisions about how you're communicating your message when you are in front of a group of people.

Rob Dwyer (14:36.706)
Wow.

Rob Dwyer (14:54.594)
Hmm. There are a number of things that come to mind as you were walking me through that. I guess the first is just to affirm that if you've ever seen a keynote, a good keynote, the amount of work that went into that, you probably wouldn't believe if you haven't done it before, because it really requires a ton of preparation. But I'm wondering...

for you going through that process, having been a public speaker, like you've been on stage. I know that you've done all kinds of ADT events and you facilitate online all the time, but you also do in-person stuff. What was the hardest part of that process for you? Like what was the hump?

that you had to get over aside from this realization of, I need to help people think differently instead of do different.

Kassy LaBorie (15:56.922)
Mm-hmm. For me, it was the message and the words and the writing. The performance side of it is more comfortable for me, probably because of my background and because of the experience that I already have. For me, I really want to make sure that I'm not saying anything that's lame, you know, or that doesn't mean anything. You know, how do you say it? So what? Click here and your life changes. No, it doesn't. You know what I mean? So the words and the writing and the meaning.

Rob Dwyer (16:15.986)
Ha ha!

Kassy LaBorie (16:27.09)
And to be honest with you, Rob, I still go, does that matter? As I went through and have written it. And that's absolutely the hump. And part of what came out of writing this first keynote speech that I now have, and I have delivered and I'm in love with it, I can't wait to continue to develop it and inform it, especially as technology continues to change and people have more experiences.

Rob Dwyer (16:33.518)
Hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (16:54.686)
because this first keynote is around connecting in a remote world and how you do it and how you stop making it weird. I believe we make it weird. But what came out of writing that, performing that, and learning how to message all that I have learned through my career into that moment is another speech that I am beginning to write as we speak. The second keynote speech

is going to be more of a traditional.

Kassy LaBorie (17:30.358)
keynote speech around getting to good enough. Because I.

Rob Dwyer (17:34.634)
I re-

Kassy LaBorie (17:37.698)
I was terrible to myself as I was learning this new thing, new way of presenting information that I've been presenting. I was awful. I like to say that I am a 25 year learning and development veteran leader, and I am the world's worst learner.

Kassy LaBorie (18:02.845)
I.

Rob Dwyer (18:03.679)
Is it that or is it that we're all our own worst critic?

Kassy LaBorie (18:09.366)
Probably, I'm researching about what my message looks like from there, but I am telling you what, I alienated friends and family. I was terrible to myself. I was telling you the story about an incident, I'll call it the incident of June of 2023, where I couldn't form words when it was my turn to be coached in front of one of my amazing coaches.

and I just exited the stage. I just had to, he was just like, you need to go, you're not ready. And that whole, I was, that I was so hard on myself, and so much so that I couldn't even take advantage of the opportunity to learn. I was so in my own way and so critical of myself. Yeah. Yeah, and it's all internal work.

Rob Dwyer (18:56.696)
Mmm.

Kassy LaBorie (19:04.178)
But through this whole process, I think there's a speech there for me, another one about that. And a lot of it's discovery for myself, you know, the internal critic, the imposter, the, you know, just not the constant thoughts of not good enough, the self, the negative self-talk, all the things that came up because I said, hey, I want to do a new thing. So mean to myself. It's incredible.

Rob Dwyer (19:23.886)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (19:30.994)
Did you consider quitting in that moment? Was that a thought?

Kassy LaBorie (19:33.43)
Oh, all the time. I did, but my personality is that I'm not a quitter. It's very funny, my friends and family often say I should have gone into sports, but it was never my path. Theater and everything was always my path. Because when I was little, if I got hit by the ball, I was the kid who cried. But the personality though, beyond, sports has an element of pain that I never got through. But the competitive, do not quit.

Rob Dwyer (19:56.899)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (20:00.946)
you know, do what you got to do to make it work. I have that in me. So I thought of it, but I know that it's not, I knew that it wasn't going to be an option. I knew that I would choose to suffer and make everyone around me suffer along with me instead.

Rob Dwyer (20:04.418)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (20:16.078)
and I'm sure they all love you for that. What did you do to come back from that moment, right? I think most of us have experienced a moment like that, maybe not on a stage and maybe in front of a smaller group or a larger group, but a moment where, you know, we just kind of...

Kassy LaBorie (20:19.347)
They love it so much.

Rob Dwyer (20:41.51)
freeze and we don't know what to do and we feel lost and we feel like throwing in the towel. I think everyone has been in a moment like that. What did you do to crawl out of that pit that you were in?

Kassy LaBorie (20:49.898)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (20:53.546)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (21:02.294)
Well, firstly, it's interesting because I just through my feed last night, Mel Robbins came through and was talking about when you have something that just really lets you down. Her advice was that she allows herself to feel that first. And be in that moment and then get up and, you know, move on and see it for what it is. Because if you try to deny it, it goes away. It doesn't necessarily go away. It still keeps bothering you. And so for me, I did.

I did crawl back home and cry for about a week and be like, I'm gonna quit. I'm not talking to anyone. I'm the worst ever. All the things, I did do all that. And then I got a little sick of myself and decided, listen, okay, what's really going on and what's really the truth of it? Because it's about separating, for me, it's about separating a lot of those feelings from what the actual facts were. And trying to look instead at

what was missing? I mean, it wasn't wrong. There was a reason why I couldn't get the words out. And so identifying that reason and then working towards what I need to do to get over that. So it's more like breaking down the tasks and just continuing to move forward. Because I mean, ultimately, I had a very important end goal in sight, right? I do. I really, and I had a keynote speech book. This was in June and I knew that I was getting up in front of a live audience in October.

Rob Dwyer (22:23.225)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (22:32.87)
And I also knew that I was gonna be recording a speaker reel in August. And so I needed to get my act together to be able to make those things happen anyway. But first I cried for a while and then I said, I gotta get through this. And it was very difficult. I think friends, family, I started doing some really serious internal work on what was making me be so afraid. Cause ultimately it was fear and fear of failure and fear of not being good enough.

Rob Dwyer (22:59.978)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (23:00.306)
And then it's like starting to ask those questions of, well, what do I mean I'm not good enough? Good enough for what? Good enough for who? And if I am in this place of needing to be good enough for someone else, why? Why do I feel that? What's going on? And I think, you know, we have like, we compare ourselves to everyone else in the world all the time, instead of just being who we are and living in what we have and what we have to offer. I know that I do. I look at others and go, wow, well, they're better than me.

Rob Dwyer (23:12.323)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (23:28.946)
rather than, wow, they're doing a great job and so am I. And so I really made a concerted effort to focus on messaging like the latter. And I got some help to do that, honestly. There's some people that I've met in my life through this process that help people do that kind of inner work. And I'm on that kind of journey now too. I'm on an inner work kind of journey of what's happening and why do I think the way that I do.

Rob Dwyer (23:38.858)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (23:54.926)
so that I can start thinking differently and thinking towards what I actually want in my life.

Rob Dwyer (24:02.506)
I love that you talk about comparing yourself to other people, because I also think we all do this. And as much as we want to celebrate the people that we know and the successes that they're having, it can be difficult not to go, but why am I not having that success? Why am I not there? And

I feel like that has only gotten worse in a world where we have a social media presence that is not reflective of a whole person. It is a facade and a lens that we can project exactly what we want to project. And we can show the world exactly what we want to show the world. Mostly our successes.

And then as onlookers who are dealing with our everyday problems and our struggles and our successes, right? But all of the reality that is our lives and not our social media presence, what we see out there is everyone else and all their wins. And that can make it really, really hard to look at yourself and go, I...

Kassy LaBorie (25:23.679)
I know they're with.

Rob Dwyer (25:28.73)
I am doing okay. I appreciate where I am in life and what I'm doing.

Kassy LaBorie (25:35.45)
Mm-hmm. It is tough. It is so tough. Something I've been thinking about the last several months around this comparison monster that exists in our world, which oddly I kind of like monsters in other contexts. So I don't know why I just called it a monster. The bad kind of monster.

Kassy LaBorie (26:01.806)
When I am trying to look at, when I have that feeling of comparing myself and it's a bad feeling, I'm trying to look at that as a gift, as a positive, because it's data, it's insight into what I might want for myself. And I'm not saying I would want that exact same thing, but there's something that's creating this in me.

And so it's insight into like, you know, some people might say, well, what should I do? Where am I headed? What do I want for my life? Well, jealousy is or envy, maybe envy is a better word, is an interesting cue. And I'm not saying, oh, go get that, that thing, because everyone is unique, but it might give you information on what you're seeking. Because and the reason I say this is because I don't have any envy over say,

Rob Dwyer (26:48.554)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (26:54.734)
somebody who is, let's say that they are a scientist and they create a new kind of thing on automobile. They create a new car process or they discover a new, I can't even talk about it because I don't care. I do, it's very cool, but I don't want it for me. So I don't have any envy if somebody discovers a new molecule or something, can those still be discovered? I don't know, but if, wow, cool, stars, super cool.

Rob Dwyer (27:19.499)
Yeah, I think so.

Kassy LaBorie (27:23.778)
not envious that you found it. Cause I don't care to find that for me. I don't even know how to talk about it properly. So the envy is interesting because if I'm having it, then what is it potentially that I might need to do in my own way? And I have an example about that if we wanna keep talking about it. I have an example of where I did it this last year actually. Yeah, I'm talking a lot, okay.

Rob Dwyer (27:43.416)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (27:46.803)
Yeah, of course.

Kassy LaBorie (27:49.158)
Okay, so a friend of mine who works in the same industry and in fact does the same type of work as me, released another book and it's a cool book and I'm mad about it, okay, at first. Why didn't I write it? Well, I know why I didn't write it. I don't love writing. I would rather talk. So that, but then still her book is cool. And I'm like, why didn't I put myself together and write another book that's as cool as that one? And I read it and I'm like, this is indeed very cool. I'm happy for you.

and I'm mad about it for like a week, right? And then I'm like, oh wait, I have an idea.

The book was around using AR in virtual training, like facilitating those kinds of things. So I'm like, I have an idea. And so then I go to my AR friends, Betty Danowitz. Can you make me something with AR that's connected to my superpowers? Long story short, we launched in March of 2023, the What's Your Virtual Training Superpower Quiz.

you can go through and I'm game for any kind of fun quiz, like which character from The Walking Dead are you? Whatever, whatever, it's fun for me. So in the vein of something like that, which is, in the vein of something like that, we created the quiz. So you go through the quiz, it's short, five minutes, 13 questions, and in it, nobody else has done this from what I know.

we put the augmented reality in it where you can also take a selfie with your result and then post it. And then, so this whole thing, and now I love it. And everyone's like, what? I get to take a selfie with my superpower? You know, and like the next generation of this is that you're gonna get to hold your superpower. That's what I really want. Right now it's just a frame because you know where AR is right now and people's usage of it. But eventually I wanna be able to hold that little thing and like swish it around next gen. But for now.

Rob Dwyer (29:47.886)
Mm.

Kassy LaBorie (29:50.782)
People love that and I love talking about it. And now I'm like, quiz, I love quizzes. Let me tell you all about quizzes and how you can build and use AR in ways that align with me and my brand, what excites me. And this is leading to, I'm now having organizations have their teams take the quiz, and then we've compiled a big report saying, here's all your results. This is where you compare against everyone that's taken it. We're having facilitated guided discussion meetings following this.

And all of this because I was jealous of a book that I didn't write, honestly. But then I found my way with it, which is completely different than the book, right? But it was inspired by that. And I found my way through that thing because I had that moment. And so I try to seek more of those moments, but they don't always happen immediately. And I have to take the time with it to first be bummed and then discover, okay, what's...

Rob Dwyer (30:27.492)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (30:49.074)
what's the thing? And what's the thing that is gonna help me be able to just stand proudly and say, I'm so excited for you that you wrote this book and you inspired me and here's what I did with it and now we can lift each other up and continue to support one another as we move through the world and have the kind of businesses and life that we love.

Rob Dwyer (30:50.635)
Hmm.

Rob Dwyer (31:11.702)
Yeah, that's awesome. I want to explore the success side a little bit more. So you just shared this incredible success story. But let's talk about that delivery of a keynote that you were spending so much time and energy in developing and had your struggles through that process.

What did it feel like when you wrapped it up for real the first time?

Kassy LaBorie (31:53.382)
It's like, for me, if you are a roller coaster rider, I tend to be the one who really loves it after I've done it, but in the beginning I'm really scared. And I have this line at the top of the hill. I love doing this when I'm with my husband or my friends. When we get to the top of the hill, I usually go, I changed my mind. It's my line. And then we go down. And then when we're off.

Rob Dwyer (32:12.841)
Ha ha!

Kassy LaBorie (32:21.762)
I'm usually my first response is this, let's do it again. And that is exactly what happened with the speech. Misery, pain, suffering, I have to do this. I don't wanna do this. Let's do it again.

Rob Dwyer (32:35.384)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (32:36.638)
That's completely what happened. Especially when, and you know what I'm trying to do is focus on the moments that worked. And this is a part of the area of growth for me, rather than focusing on what didn't work, which can be a default. I'm working on changing that default to these are the things that did work and I will continue to do those and strengthen those and grow those and minimize or get rid of the things that weren't as comfortable or that didn't land. Because it is a process, that's part of what I learned too.

Rob Dwyer (33:02.99)
Hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (33:05.746)
You know, you got to try stuff. You got to try it in rehearsal after rehearsal after rehearsal and having many people around you. You got to go live with different audiences. Very prepared. I mean, something that I had already valued but I value even more now is that when I am in front of an audience, that is not the first time you're seeing it. I have worked it and I've worked it with many people who are giving me very, very frank feedback because I...

Rob Dwyer (33:32.262)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (33:33.214)
don't want it to be a fail for you. I owe it to you when I am in front of you to have worked that hard. So, yeah, but it's a process. And I'm still open to what works and what doesn't. Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (33:43.106)
I think that's... yeah.

Rob Dwyer (33:48.263)
You hit on two things that really resonate for me. The first is.

Focusing on what works first Because all of us tend to go to the critical side the what did I fail at? What did I not do? Well? what how did I blow that and The reality is there are important things that we do well Even if the overall result isn't what we're looking for as an end result that We can recognize

I nailed that part. I feel really good about that. And we need to do that because we need to continue that. We have to continue to build on the good stuff. And you can only do that if you recognize what the good stuff is.

Kassy LaBorie (34:29.427)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (34:40.798)
Yeah, it's about making yourself safe and having people around you and processes around you that create those safe environments. We talk all the time in learning and development about create a safe learning environment. Well, it's like create a safe learning environment for yourself, protect yourself and recognizing what you've done well is about your own safety net. And that gives you enough confidence to then say, okay, that other thing that didn't work.

Rob Dwyer (34:53.879)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (35:00.511)
Yeah, absolutely.

Kassy LaBorie (35:05.846)
we're gonna change it because I know that I am capable of many other things that do work. You know, I could tell you a funny one if you want. It's slightly edgy. Funny feedback that I got in rehearsal. Okay. All right. A little bit funny feedback I got in rehearsal. So I am teaching people about connecting in a remote world. And I had this great idea that I'd open with when I come on stage, I want to be in robe and bunny slippers.

Rob Dwyer (35:11.584)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (35:17.042)
I'm all about edgy. Let's do it.

Kassy LaBorie (35:33.83)
And then I got to take that off and get into business clothes, right? Which I'll have business clothes on underneath. I'm not going to be fully changing, of course. But when I first rehearsed it, I just took off the robe and didn't say anything. Now I'm dressed underneath. But all the focus was on the taking off of the robe in a business setting. What we learned very quickly was that while taking off the robe, I must talk.

Rob Dwyer (35:40.247)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (36:02.258)
So think Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood versus the other thing you might think when people literally disrobe in front of an audience. So I have to talk to normalize it and then, you know, casually set the robe down on a chair. You know what I'm saying? There was a whole process we went through of make sure that you say words because otherwise you're just standing there quietly and we're watching the removal. So.

Rob Dwyer (36:07.978)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Kassy LaBorie (36:29.454)
little thing like that because it didn't you wouldn't necessarily think of that until you see someone do that live over and over and over again. Very funny.

Rob Dwyer (36:38.538)
Yeah, it's amazing how things hit and how much practice and refinement is required to create a successful and I would just call it a performance, right? You talked about your background in theater, a performance with a play or any type of something that you would go see at a theater. They practice and they practice and they practice and there's

direction and there's feedback and there's iteration and they change things and they go, well, that just that seems not working for whatever reason. And we've got to figure out why. And you're talking about doing the same thing. And if anyone thinks they can just go out and deliver a keynote without that prep, I'm telling you, you're off your rocker. It will be a disaster. Please don't do that. It is work.

Kassy LaBorie (37:33.95)
I mean, this is why people pace and just say things and why you don't remember them. The performance side, and this is why I sought out the training that I did this last year, these people are master grad actors. And so it's the, how do you move an audience? And in the case of a keynote speech, how do you move an audience to think differently so ultimately they may be doing and acting differently?

and that comes through the performance and the way that you tell a story and the way that you relate to an audience. All of those things, every single movement is with intention. And if it isn't, then you have a missed opportunity.

Rob Dwyer (38:19.484)
100%.

Kassy LaBorie (38:19.678)
Every single movement, every single word. Yeah, and so that does take a lot of thought and a lot of practice. There's so much that goes into it mentally, physically, emotionally, all the things. And I actually 100% love it. I'm also completely overwhelmed by it on a daily basis. I have developed some daily practices to help me through that. I have a daily vocal warmup, whether I'm speaking.

Rob Dwyer (38:33.378)
Mm-hmm.

Kassy LaBorie (38:48.314)
on a giant stage or in an online meeting or even just two family and friends. I run through a daily vocal warmup just as part of the practice of taking care of this physical vessel that messages come through. It's like part of this bigger picture that has all become part of this process of where I'm headed in the future. Where I'm at actually, and also where I'm headed.

Rob Dwyer (39:04.267)
Mmm.

Rob Dwyer (39:13.998)
I might have to borrow that just pre-pod warm up, because I will be quite frank, I do not do that and I have noticed it at times, particularly if I'm recording first thing in the morning, that my voice is not the same, it doesn't have the same quality as it does in the afternoon. And so that's what I'm going to.

Kassy LaBorie (39:29.104)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (39:41.307)
One little takeaway that I have for the new year is to get some tips on Cassie as to how I can warm up my voice.

Kassy LaBorie (39:50.362)
Excellent.

Rob Dwyer (39:51.734)
So Kazzy, thank you so much. I know that this is a conversation that can be a little bit vulnerable and that can be scary. And I love that you have shared this journey. And I know that I'm looking forward to seeing what 2024 brings for you. I'm very excited about it. And if you see

Cassie's doing something on LinkedIn. Make sure you go check it out. Maybe you can catch her amazing keynote. I haven't seen it, but I'm looking forward to catching it. And just thank you so much for coming back to the show and sharing this with us.

Kassy LaBorie (40:41.162)
Thank you so much for having me and for all of your support, encouragement, but also, Rob, friendship too.

Rob Dwyer (40:48.093)
Thank you.