Started from the Bottom featuring Alisha (Ali) Joseph

Transcript

Rob Dwyer (00:02)
I'm back another episode next in queue today. Ali Joseph Ali. How are you?

I mean, as we have already discussed, I am feeling a bit like the day is just running over me today. That's how I feel. But the good news is you are the last set of wheels to run over me. And I feel like you're going to be the nicest set of wheels to run over me today. And so I'm looking forward to it.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (00:23)
I well, how are you, Rob?

Rob Dwyer (00:40)
Okay, good. Everyone be kind, rewind.

Yeah, about half the audience has no idea what that means. Ali, before we dig into our conversation today, let's get to know you. Tell us about you. Number one, where in this world are you? And what do you think we should know about

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (00:52)
Promise to be kind. Scout's honor.

You

Rob Dwyer (01:20)
Ha

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (01:24)
So hello, world. First of all, Rob, thank you for having me on Next In Queue. I feel like a celebrity. I've watched people go on Next In Queue. So I feel very special and honored to be here today. I am Alicia Joseph. Most people in the industry, in the support industry, knows me as Ollie Joseph. I'm born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. I am currently in the suburbs now. I've been here for about two years.

I have been in support from customer support, customer success, customer experience for over 15 years. I started as an agent and worked my way all the way to senior leadership. And now I'm taking a little bit of some faith and a little leap to create my leadership development and training and consulting firm for contact center professional, Savvy Service Pro. I launched it officially this year.

Did all my legal paperwork, got my insurance and all the business stuff, making sure we're legal. So, big foodie, mother of an amazing four year old. Music is my love language. Yes, you will probably see me in different wigs too. People know me from that as well.

Rob Dwyer (02:29)
What I heard is started from the bottom and now Ali is here. So.

This actually is very pertinent to the conversation

that I

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (02:45)
you

Rob Dwyer (02:46)
is starting from the bottom of maybe even

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (02:50)
There you go.

Rob Dwyer (02:53)
don't think we talk enough about and the opportunities that support provides. was just having a conversation yesterday with Sarah Betts, who is going to be on the show very soon. Look forward to that. And we were actually talking about this episode and what we were going to discuss. And Sarah was like, I was a single mom.

And I started in support and it was the thing that I could do because I could do it from home. And I couldn't just go to a job because it didn't have childcare opportunities. And I think in this rush to, in a lot of industries to return to office that we forget about the opportunities that support and service provide people that.

don't have as many options. So that's what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about some of the things that is overlooked when it comes to customer support, customer service, and the opportunities it provides. I'd like to hear from you, number one, how you got into this. Paint the picture for me when you got into customer support. Were you thinking,

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (04:09)
Yes.

Rob Dwyer (04:21)
savvy career move. I am going to be on stage in a few years because this is such a great move. Is that how that happened?

Ha

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (04:48)
complete opposite complete opposite. what I tell people about is when they ask me they see me with these conversations they're seeing me with the speaking and they're like man you really want to do this absolutely not. So when I was about 19 years old my first like

contact center support team was for a fundraising company. really small company in Elk Grove Village, Illinois. I had absolutely zero interest in working in contact centers. I actually used one company that I worked for literally for two months just so I can get vacation money to go out of town. I had absolutely zero interest. did not care. And we're talking about the like 50, 100, 10,000 like contact support centers. We're talking about your local mom and pop.

I'm fundraiser asking for donations for the police for the firefighters. So I started that's where I started and it was literally just about the money for me and I worked a couple other jobs as well doing that as well. And I seen some things Rob and I was just like, no, this ain't for me. I'm just here for the cash. I'm just going to be transparent. had the same mentality that most of society had. And so

Rob Dwyer (05:48)
You

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (06:13)
It took someone very special. I got into the education field, so online education. And I came in as a temp, so been an agent most of my career. So a lot of people out there, you know, I know the tricks. I got the QA fails, you know, telling customers, I'm sorry you feel that way. That was my line. I definitely got dinged for that. Definitely was the one they...

Rob Dwyer (06:16)
No.

That is not empathy, girl. That is not empathy.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (06:43)
Not at all and I used to every manager I had now, you know, you cannot say that but I'm not saying it in a bad way. I'm saying well, I'm sorry that you feel that way. It's still wrong. Okay, fine. All right, I'll change it. But I ended up getting an education and there was a manager that I got transferred to that said, hey, you know, they heard about my background. They saw like my scores are great. I got along with the team.

Hey, you should become like a subject matter expert. You know, we have people coming in all the time and we could really use that. And so at first I was hesitant because I'm like, no, I'm here for the check. And I said it with a straight face and he looked at me like, Oh, I'm like, I'm here for the money. don't have, this isn't my industry. I was going to school to become a lawyer. I was going to be a criminal attorney. That was my plan. That was the goal. And so he kept picking at me.

and kept giving me signs like, really think you should do this. I think you have impact. And so he wore me down. said, okay, I'll start with the subject matter experts. So all the newbies came in out of training. I was the one they sat with, shadowed with, and it was fun, but it was just, it was just fun for me. wasn't, I'm trying to be like super professional or anything. I'm just telling you how to do the job. Get your money, go home, right?

where I'm from, know, opportunities, you know, you think doctor lawyer, like that's what gets you out of the quote hood, right? And so that was my same level of thinking. But that manager at the time saw something in me. They saw a passion for helping people. And so I took that as I continued on with my career and growing. And essentially, I went into the finance industry. And so when I went into finance industry, I came in as an agent, but I was quickly able to move up.

to a team lead because there was a need. And I just was, I just got used to helping people. So for me, this wasn't even, I'm really trying to go up the ranks. I just had a natural passion for helping people. And it was from that start of working at that online education to going as a advisor for military. A lot of people don't know that. Like I did the grants for military for veterans as well as active military. And then going into finance, going in,

from an agent to all the way to a manager. And the rest has been history. Like this is actually my career. And never in a million years, what I've actually thought that this would be where I needed to be. And it's been an amazing journey from where I'm from. I'm from the West side of Chicago. And so most of you probably are watching and you're probably like, I've heard about Chicago. And while some of that is true,

There are also some of the beautiful intricacies of the hood that is not discussed. Okay. Some beautiful food, beautiful people, beautiful culture, family and connection. But looking back on it, if that manager did not stay on me to go in this route, honestly, I wouldn't have, but it was something that he saw in me. He saw a fire and a passion for people that he was just like,

that's needed, like people that actually take this role seriously. And I just ran with it and it has opened doors for me. It has gotten me connected to people who have really stated my name in rooms, going all the way from a agent to a team lead to a manager and to a senior manager. And so I don't take that for granted at all, but it's actually been one of the best opportunities that I've had in my life. Like when I think about a traditional path,

Rob Dwyer (10:15)
Hmm. Hmm. Very interesting. I opened this kind of talking about the things that work from home

provides, but it's not just work from home. And I know when I first got into this business and I had a whole other.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (10:26)
I'm not I think about it now. I actually wouldn't take it

Rob Dwyer (10:37)
industry for 10 years. 2008 happened and it was like time the world said it's time for you to find something else and that's how.

first in the contact center before I ever took a call I went and I nested with a guy we called it nesting then some people call it why jacking or side-by-side lots of different terms but it's basically like I'm the apprentice I'm sitting here and I'm just observing this person do their job so

This guy.

had a tattoo across his forehead. Now this is 15 years ago. And had a tattoo across his forehead.

No matter how you look at it, that can be a really difficult thing to have and allow you to get a customer facing job. But the contact center, because my customer facing is my voice or my typing skills or whatever, there's no judgment. Nobody knew that his forehead said nothing to prove, because that's what it said. It said nothing to prove.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (11:40)
Mmm.

Rob Dwyer (12:07)
I don't know that Target would be like, yeah, you can kind of come in and work our customer service desk. It's probably not going to allow him to do that. But he can still deploy those same skills. And I feel like there's a, in the contact center, there's a, I don't want to say judgment free because it's not. I think that is just not true anywhere. But I think there are things that

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (12:17)
Wow.

Rob Dwyer (12:35)
People who would be judged in a certain way in other industries or other environments, contact centers don't judge them the same way. They want to know, can you talk to people? Do you want to help people? And if that's the case, like, come on in, we can help you.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (13:11)
I agree. think some of my, some of the best managers I've had to invest leaders had tats. To be quite honest, one manager I had years ago had arm tattoos and was in a band. It was the best fucking thing ever. Like the personalities that are in the contact center industry in support, in experience success. Like you meet some very interesting people. You meet,

people from all different generations. have people coming back just because they've retired, they got bored, they wanna come in. Great people to give wisdom. I've met people fresh out of college just giving insights like, I'm proud of what I've accomplished. Let me show what I know. And then you have people like myself who are in the middle just kinda like, hey, I'm still trying to figure out what I wanna do and if this is the right path for me, but.

It's always been that way. And I've tried, I've always strived to be that leader because a lot of the times when people are coming here, they're also dealing with a lot, you know, the environment that they come from, family issues, know, childcare or child issues. So there's so much going on. And I think not only has it just been like a comfortable safe space, for some it's been a safe space, right? And as weird as that sounds for me,

Working in this industry was a safe space, right? So, you know, life wasn't easy for me. I didn't have a silver spoon put in my mouth at all. You know, I grew up in the hood, you know, you know, wanted to go the straight path of, you know, be a doctor, be a lawyer, get like a professional job. But it just like now that I think back on it just never suited me like the people that I've met, the leaders I've met, the agents I've met.

Rob Dwyer (15:01)
You

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (15:02)
They've

all come from different backgrounds and I've learned so much from them, right? Things that I never knew or even things as I grew in my career that I wasn't even aware of. Cause sometimes, you know, we're all like, we're self-aware, but a lot of times we're not self-aware of ourselves. People can check and balance that. And I've had people over the years do that, but it's been insightful, right? Because you learn something different. You understand something about yourself that you can correct. But for me,

Rob Dwyer (15:05)
Ha

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (15:31)
It was a safe space. It was a space where community came together. It was a safe space where, yeah, we got shit going on outside, but guess what? We gotta get these tickets down. Let's get it together. We do the hoorah. We do the pizza party, right? I will say one of my favorite places, nobody else judged me for this, okay? I'm just putting this out here, but I will say one of my favorite places that I did work was Grubhub.

Rob Dwyer (15:47)
That is old school.

Mm-hmm.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (15:57)
Um, grew up of old school. I'm class of 2016 to 2019. Okay. So if you was around that is old school. Okay. Especially in the startup industry. I feel like I got a cane. So

The community and the group and the people that were there during that time. Absolutely incredible. Like we just had a synergy, a vibe. It was just the energy that was like no other. And for me it was just the right people at the right time. So it even excelled or it enhanced my learning from learning from other people and vice versa. But that energy just.

to make each team better, retention better, people wanting to come to work, understanding like, hey, somebody has my back. And so it was a safe space for me for a very long time, amidst all the other personal things like coming to work and working with these people from different environments and backgrounds. Yeah, we got these tickets. Yeah, it's busy. But when it was time to just sit back and have a conversation,

Rob Dwyer (16:59)
Yeah, absolutely. I think this business has the widest variety of backgrounds

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (17:09)
and learn about them. It was just a beautiful, it was a beautiful thing.

Rob Dwyer (17:09)
and people and cultures that you can experience because it really is a job that just about, I don't want to say anyone can do, those things do not stop you from doing this. You have to have a certain mentality to do.

get into this business and stay in it, especially depending on like what your function is. I've talked to some people who got started in collection.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (17:42)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (17:42)
going to be

in that space you got to be a certain kind of person to be able to handle that if you are taking calls from angry people all the time you got to be built a certain way to be able to handle that yeah yeah but there is there is very little about an individual's background that would say no you can't work in some

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (17:45)
Definitely tough scan.

Rob Dwyer (18:10)
or no, you can't work in customer service, that space is not for you. It really boils down to just personality and how you can interact with customers.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (18:10)
Mmm.

I agree, absolutely. And if you could do that well, that's what got you through the door. And it wasn't, and for some people, right, this was like another opportunity for them too, right? Like you have people who may have messed up in their lives. And this is something that I've talked about before with our industry that I was thinking like, wow, it really be cool if, you know,

We have these opportunities where we bring in people for second chance programs, people who can't get a traditional job or, you know, they can't get into like that high functioning, like paying job in the original way from like an attorney or in one of those types of fancy roles because, you know, they just, may have made mistakes in their life, right? Like we all have, you know, there's no one on here that can say, you know, my life was perfect or I did everything perfect. Like some people did make mistakes, right? And I felt like,

this would be that opportunity for them. And I've even seen people who have made those mistakes and come into a contact center and they become managers, they become leaders, hell, they've become senior managers. So it's given people who the world kind of shut out, like you got one chance, you screwed it up by, it opened the door for those people to, who really wanted to make that change and really wanted to go on a better path. And they actually came in, did the work and they've excelled.

And so that's what's always been interesting to me and I will still pitch that idea any day, anybody like you want to build a contact center, you want to talk about diversity, you want to bring in people that care passionately, get some people who need a second chance, that are dedicated, that are ready to work, that's ready to handle business, right? And you will get some people who will come in and do what they need to do.

because they know, now it's not gonna always be 100%, but they know, hey, this is my next shot. And I have seen people take that through contact centers and they have excelled significantly. And it's given them just kind of a refreshing feeling like, hey, I can do this. Hey, I am a part of this society. Hey, I can contribute this to society in a positive way.

And so those are the things people don't get or don't understand, not only just with contact center industry is like you're meeting so many different people, so much talent. And even if someone made a mistake that you may find like, I wouldn't deal with that. You'd be surprised at giving them an opportunity and giving them a platform can do for somebody.

Rob Dwyer (21:03)
I hear Rudy Giuliani is looking for a job. Maybe he is destined for a contact center now.

Hold on you're talking and I got somebody on my and like attorney needs a second chance Feel like that whole pitch like that's what you were going for was Rudy Rudy Rudy Rudy But it was a different Rudy Okay Sorry, sorry about that. I'd love

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (21:26)
No comment.

No

if he's willing to do the wor-

Rob Dwyer (21:47)
to talk about some specific success stories. Forget about names, forget about identifying people. But I will start with a particular success story. And I think this.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (21:50)
Rudy! Rudy!

You

Rob Dwyer (22:03)
I think this industry is sometimes underappreciated for what it offers. But I know in the organization, Customer Direct, that in its history, and it's got a much longer history than I've been involved. They've been in business for almost 30 years now. But one of their agents, when they started there, was homeless. And being in a contact center allowed them

to get out of homelessness. It was a job that they could take despite their situation and improve where they were in life. they were there for years. And I don't think that we think about what contact centers can offer people, what support centers can offer people.

Can you tell me just some examples of people that you've run across that have been able to do things that maybe other jobs probably wouldn't have allowed?

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (23:31)
So this goes back probably earlier in my career when I was working in finance. Now mind you, I was a new manager, right? So there were some stepping stones I had to go through, but this one lady, young lady stood out in particular just because she was living at home. She had finally came out the closet, right? She was part of the LGBTQIA community. And of course,

understanding because I have a southern family from Alabama's I saw I get it right and her family were southern Baptist they Of course did not accept her lifestyle now She was kind of in a situation where you know She obviously didn't have the money to really get out of the situation So it's definitely hell for her so every day. You know she's coming to work You know sometimes that it was different or well. Yeah, sometimes you know

It's a good day. Sometimes it wasn't a bad day, right? It was a bad day. And that's hard. And I think what really made me get to understand or try to like get to know what her situation was, was one day she ended up staying after work into one of like the little cubby rooms and she was actually asleep. And someone came and told me like, hey, you know, so and so is here. Like shift was over like hours ago.

And so, you I came to talk to her. like, you know, let me have a conversation, you know, see what's going on. Maybe there are some things going on. And I was nervous because again, I've never ran into this. Like I'm a new manager. I'm just still trying to figure out my team. let me, you know, and I was not that great with people leading. Like I'm going to be 100%. When I started people leading, I went by.

absolutely regret it. So I went and talked to her and I just had a conversation, found out there was a lot going on at pretty much broke down. It was just like, I just can't be at home anymore. I can't do it. This is what's going on, my parents, this, that, and the other. So the first thing was trying to figure out if there was maybe someone that she could potentially stay with, if she could get some help with.

And we found that first just so she could have a space. One of the, one of her colleagues that she was friends with, let her stay at the house with her for about a few days, right? Cause it was just a lot. so trying to just get housing, like, listen, I'll talk to the director. I'll let them know, Hey, I need you to take these couple of days off. So this let me as a leader, I think that was my first proud moment as a leader, but the role.

Rob Dwyer (26:14)
Yeah.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (26:19)
helped me to be able to do things that typically other organizations wouldn't do. Hell, if they would have saw this person sleeping, they probably would have been fired, like right then and there. So it was a lot. you know, but I had the autonomy to be able to have this conversation. Hey, I need you to take a couple days off, right? Like, I don't need you to think about nothing. We could put in some PTO. We'll work this out. I just need you to take two days. Just two days to just...

Refresh think about a plan and so over time, you know, she would spend some time, you know at different folks houses Just surviving and stuff essentially got kicked out of home. So that was like the second part because it just became so much but essentially With with help, you know, there were a couple times, you know Few of us will put in you know, hey, let's see if we can him in a hotel for a couple nights but over time

We tried to work on a plan to at least get, make sure that there was stability. The beautiful thing is, again, someone who's given an opportunity, if you really understand them and get to know their situation, essentially she went from being an agent, she actually went into quality, because that was one of her primary goals. And of course, with the situation personally, she couldn't really get her quality scores up. She couldn't really get her metrics up to full capacity dealing with that. And that's a lot of people.

Rob Dwyer (27:42)
Hmm.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (27:44)
And sometimes it's just easily showing that you care that really will change the difference between somebody who's gonna come in and work for you and be dedicated to you and for somebody that's just gonna leave, right? And now they're back in a situation or even worse. And so it was patience, right? It was, hey, know, talking to my boss and just being like, hey, I'm gonna need her to do, off a couple of days, or I'm gonna need her to, you know, maybe do half of this work.

her on calls for half a day, do emails the next day. Kind of just really not only thinking about just the work and what she could contribute to, but also thinking about her psych. Because as you know, being in that community, for a lot of people, they're homeless for that reason. And so essentially, we got her to where she needed to be, metric wise. Took a little bit of time, but she met her goal. And her goal was to go ahead and be a quality analyst. It paid a little bit more. She was able to get her own apartment.

Rob Dwyer (28:35)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (28:43)
And so a lot of people may look at that and be like, well, that ain't nothing like it's apartment. Like for some people it is, right? You know, they're trying to run from toxic people. They're trying to run from people that's not supportive of their life or maybe their lifestyle. And they're just trying to make it. And she made it. Yes, she did. She just because people show that they actually cared that could have turned into a whole different situation and could end it totally different. But just showing that you care.

And in this industry, having a little bit of that flexibility with opportunities that in most industries you wouldn't have, it just makes a difference. And so I hope she continued that journey, but it was really amazing to see. think that's actually the one that stuck to me my entire time, because had I not known, had nobody came and got me, that could have turned into something completely different.

Rob Dwyer (29:21)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It is a testament, think, one to you, but also to the culture of the organization that you were in, that you're allowed to care and make

decisions that are not by the book. And I don't want to say that that is a blanket statement for all support groups or service groups, because I don't think it is. But I do think.

Because you're typically talking about people who like to help people like that's what that's what you're built for right? I want to help people to be successful in this kind of role that you find Those organizations tend to have that type of culture where you can step outside of the the black and white or what would normally happen in an organization and really

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (29:54)
Right.

Rob Dwyer (30:21)
someone because you can see that they need it and

When you do that, it just means that they're being seen for who they are and that you value them as a person. There's a lot to be said.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (30:50)
Yeah.

Absolutely. And that's all people want is just validation. You find it in crazy places, but validation that sometimes that's just it. Like, let's not talk about another metric. Let's not talk about another report for a second. Let's not even talk about a restructured change. Let's just talk about you. And so even just that fine moment of conversating, even if it's just one fact, that's like,

been my thing when I became a manager and a leader in general is I always try to remember one thing about each person, not just who's reporting to me, but even like who I'm reporting to or even leaders that are above that, right? So I always try to figure out that one thing about that person, that one thing that makes them tick, that one conversation that brings them joy, that one conversation that they could probably talk about for days on end. So I always keep that in mind because if you don't,

you get into this just consistent robotic phase of just, hey, we're just going by the book, do this, do that. And for a lot of leaders, unfortunately, we're put in that position, right? Some of them grew like me, not having like the right training, you know, just kind of going off of what the last leader did. And sometimes that last leader wasn't a great leader. So now you're also cleaning up a situation too. So there's just so many different things, but just that one moment to have.

Rob Dwyer (32:17)
Hmm.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (32:18)
person to be real and honest and genuine. No BS, no, I'm going to be a blanket manager, I'm going to put on this face mask and stay like completely straight looking at you, but actually being just a general human being, sometimes that's all a person needs just for that motivation.

Rob Dwyer (32:20)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the other things about this business is the barrier to entry is incredibly low. Do you need to have some computer

skills? Yes, yes you do. Do you need to be able to talk with people? Yes, yes you do. But I don't need certifications. I don't need a degree. I don't need a job history.

that says X, Y, or Z. As you were mentioning earlier, I could be starting over. That's how I got into the business. I was starting over. I thought I was going to retire with Wachovia. And some people don't even know that name. They were really, really big bank at the time. Like, was a big name. And poof.

I don't have I was actually drinking a coffee out of my Wachovia mug today. I still have it. It's one of my favorite mugs. And. Right, I I had to start over and I think for people, whether they're just getting into the workforce and don't know what they want to do. Whether there are people that live in an area that maybe doesn't have a lot of.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (33:26)
Okay, Rob you telling my age come on come on now

That's right.

Rob Dwyer (33:46)
opportunities. That's one of the beauties of work from home is that I may be able to get a job. Just recently, I had a conversation on the show and we were talking about hiring remotely from a specific area where this company was finding a lot of success and finding really loyal people in a small community that did a great job.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (34:06)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (34:16)
probably didn't have a ton of other options. But then the word gets out like, hey, this is the place to be. This is a really good opportunity. And now all of a sudden, you can be the employer of choice in a place where you don't actually even have a facility. But it gives people who otherwise are looking at maybe their local

Walmart or the dollar store or something like that. Something that they can do and if they have any type of mobility issues or disabilities that don't allow them to be working in the dollar store or would make that physically difficult. If they can sit at a desk and wear a headset and work the computer and take calls like you can

be really successful. And as you mentioned, there are opportunities outside of just taking calls or just answering support tickets or just dealing with the emails or the chats that are coming in, whatever that environment is. There are other opportunities where you can make more money. Maybe you become a team lead.

Maybe you move into quality, maybe you move into training or workforce management. There are so many different opportunities. And if you are in an environment where it's a contact center supporting the larger business, there may be opportunities to move into different departments. So I can help the company and maybe learn something totally different.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (36:21)
It's endless. I will say to people, cause a lot of people think, well, you know, you can't make a lot of money in this industry. Some cases, I know we still, we do have some work to do. will put that caveat in there, but I have made six figures in this industry. Like I try to tell people it's just how you, you work and navigate. it's a continual learning. People have made six figures more than six figures in this industry. It's just navigating non.

who your stakeholders are, knowing who to talk to, knowing the right people, getting the right allies. And so that's why I think I stayed in it too, because with my own journey, but also seeing other people go from just being on the phones and taking calls, they've went to other opportunities. They went to other departments. Some have went to product and engineering, went to marketing.

went to quality. That's always been like a big driver move from support is going into quality. So all these different opportunities that are there, there's so much, right? And just starting on the phone, understanding the customer, knowing what the customer is for that company can open those doors. Figure it out. Like you think, you know, people are like, strategic. We want to use the big lingo, you know, strategize thought leader. Let's, let's, let's cut that shit right now. All right. Check this out.

Sit down. Let's get to the nitty gritty here, Rob. Let's get to the nitty gritty. Sit down literally with a piece of paper. And this is what I would do as an agent, right? And I just look at the customer base that we had and the people that were calling in and the trends and literally just sit there in between calls and just writing out ideas, like legit, okay? Sending them to my team lead manager, whoever would listen and be like, hey, I just threw this together.

doesn't have to be pretty, doesn't have to be perfect. That's where your leaders come in and they help to clean that up. They help you to understand what that language looks like. And literally that's what I would just do. Man, I wish we could do this or I wish we could add this to the website. But legit, like, you know, nowadays, you know, we want to talk about thought leadership and no, want to, no, let's, let's not do that. All right. Let's, you can sit there with a pen and paper. Okay. Chewing some gum, not on the call, but after the call. Okay. Don't chew cause I want a body.

Rob Dwyer (38:41)
Mm-hmm.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (38:43)
you telling Mike, no I'm not, disclosure. But literally just sitting there and just coming up with ideas and just thinking about stuff. even when you're shooting the shit with people. There's been times I've literally just sat there, shot the shit with people and ideas have come out. And it didn't require a presentation deck. It's just literally people coming in a room, being genuine with one another and being honest.

Now, of course, there's ways to navigate that. So it's not like a continual negative conversation. As leaders, we should know like, OK, we get that frustration. How can we turn this around? And what can we do right now where we can stay within budget, get some buy in from product, or if we have to do a loophole until we can get that buy in? Right. So, you know, I get it. I get it. Yes, you know, different audience, different conversation.

Rob Dwyer (39:31)
So you bring up something that I think is not talked about often enough. And that is we spend a lot of time, I've done it on

this show, talking about voice of the employee. And when we do that, we often talk about what do we as leaders need to do to make sure that we're listening to the voice of the employee, that's setting up specific programs or reaching out to our employees or going and.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (39:40)
But for me it's just like, let's get in here and hash this out. Like literally.

Rob Dwyer (39:57)
Having C-suite go sit with the employees and see how things actually operate on the front lines. And all of those are good things. Like, yes, do all of those. But if you are that person on the front line, like tell your ideas to people because you may not be in an organization that is doing these things to intentionally listen to the wisdom that you are gaining.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (40:19)
Right.

Rob Dwyer (40:27)
by doing the job every day because you are. You are gaining wisdom by doing the job every day. You see the deficiencies in processes. You see the deficiencies in applications. You hear what customers are pissed off about. You know what customers love about your organization, right? Take that wisdom and your ideas and throw them to your team leader. Throw them

Maybe start with your peer and just say, Hey, wouldn't it be great if this happened? And if they're like, yeah, that would make my life so much easier than okay, you're onto something. That's a good idea. Now see what kind of steam you can get behind that by sharing that with someone who's closer to being able to implement that. And you may find you have a leader who is not terribly receptive to that.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (41:25)
Mm-hmm.

Rob Dwyer (41:27)
but don't let that stop you from.

taking that wisdom and trying to push it up because eventually if you have a good enough idea, someone is going to listen to that idea and make a change. It's gonna benefit everyone and

people who come up with those ideas, the people who are thinking, who are writing things down in between phone calls, those are the people that often are thought of as the leaders within an organization, even though they don't have a leadership role. And when a leadership role is open and we need someone, if that's you, believe me, you're going to be on the top of the list.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (42:35)
I agree. You just fought up.

a really interesting part when we say leaders, some leaders may not be receptive. That's how I essentially got into becoming a team lead and actually getting in any kind of leadership. It is hard. It's not an easy thing, especially because one, I think now like reflecting back, again, a lot of leaders are put into different positions.

They have to do certain things. They have to follow certain rules, in some cases, politics. So I get that now reflecting back. Nevertheless, when I was in that position, I actually had a leader who changed QA scores. This leader was fired, but it was found that this leader was changing quality scores. Now back in the day, y'all, so we talking a little bit over 10 years back, okay?

If you all understand that quality was done manually, both a small structured team and by the managers, okay? So there wasn't all these really cool quality tools that there are today, okay? So we went old school and it was found when they finally brought someone in that had over 20 years of experience doing quality and setting up quality programs, that they identified that this leader,

was changing quality scores and making them lower so that way other opportunities could not come. And that's how it was found out. I was one of those agents that those quality scores were reduced because I show was confused. I talked to quality, the actual team, they said one thing, this leader saying something else. So, yeah, speak up. I tell teams that I run, speak up. If

Rob Dwyer (44:07)
Mm-hmm

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (44:33)
don't agree with you go tell somebody else. I might not be the leader that's gonna help you with this but somebody else will. Because I said to myself after that experience and I only found out because I built relationships with people outside of just my team that this is what was happening. And so speak up. Don't leave your ideas just to sit there and think you can't add any value to the organization. Because had someone not audited

but had people like myself or other people had not spoken up like, something's not right. I probably wouldn't be in the position that I'm in today to be quite honest, but don't let people or leaders or anyone stop you from sharing your ideas. Get leaders who get it, okay? And you will definitely go far with the right people.

Rob Dwyer (45:12)
Yeah.

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (45:26)
it is a hard road. It is challenging. Sometimes there is politics and in some cases you do have to leave, but I've seen it firsthand. Like, Hey, sometimes you got to kind of politely and slow, you know, sometimes you might have to agree or, you know, agree to disagree, but sometimes you kind of have to go around the corner and kind of get, get another voice in an opinion to kind of make them move that hedge way over to the other side.

Rob Dwyer (45:30)
Mm-hmm

Yeah, absolutely. I need to dispel a myth right now. And that myth is that old school quality only happened 10 years ago. Girl is happening today. And if your organization

is struggling with quality, I want to talk to you because there's a better way. But aside from that self-serving promotion that I just threw out there,

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (46:05)
Mmm.

Rob Dwyer (46:06)
What are you helping people with in their organization? So I'm gonna claim quality of you need help with quality. Come come talk to me, but. What do you want people to come talk to you?

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (46:16)
I love it.

Love it.

So simply put, I want people to come talk to me about leadership development and training. So I started Savvy Service Pro because for me, I found a gap in leadership training. And again, as we've been talking about, some leaders are bad leaders, but some of them are bad leaders, not because they're bad people. There are some, I get it. But a lot of them is because they just had to come in and deal with the politics and the BS that was going on at the moment. I've been in those situations too.

I started Savvy Service Pro to create a leadership development and training, also consulting for us basically by us. I'm not, Fubu don't sue me, because I wasn't trying to do that. But when I say for us by us, okay? When I say for us by us, I mean for contact center leader professionals by a contact center leader profession. No.

Rob Dwyer (47:24)
There are so many people right now who are listening to this going I don't even know why that's funny, but I know why that's funny.

I I I remember Carson Daly saying I'm down I wear FUBU so If you want to Really take your leadership development to the next level or maybe you've got another problem

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (47:40)
Yeah

Rob Dwyer (47:54)
you think Ali can help you with. You know what to do. Go down to the show notes. LinkedIn is there. Connect. Tell her that you saw her on next and queue. Now she's famous because she's been on next and queue. That's what I heard. I think that's what I heard. So just tell her that she's famous because she's been on next and queue and then have a chat. You are awesome. I really appreciate you joining the show. Thank

Thank Thank you. Thank

Alisha (Ali) Joseph (48:40)
Likewise Rob, I'm so honored. Thank you so much. This was very very fun. I appreciate you as well