The 1984 video for Magic by the Cars featured a wild cast of characters who rush to surround a backyard pool. Why? Lead singer Ric Ocasek walks on water while singing about how the feeling of being close with someone can be like magic. The entire crowd is fixated on Ocasek throughout the video, even after he leaves the water and walks around the pool’s perimeter. It’s the kind of attention that any brand would love to have.
But if you’ve ever been to a tradeshow, you know that most brands barely get the time of day from attendees, even if they’ve paid enormous sums of money to have their logo splashed all over tradeshow swag. But what if a brand brought along someone who could fixate the crowd like Ric Ocasek? While I didn’t ask him to sing, this week, I did talk with magician and infotainer, Anders Boulanger. His company, Engagify, specializes in driving brand engagement at tradeshows.
We discuss:
- The Art of Infotainment
- Engagement versus Awareness
- The Power of Emotion in Decision-Making
- Crafting Compelling Stories
- Cheat Codes for Engagement
- Engaging in a Virtual World
Connect with Anders on LinkedIn
Music courtesy of Big Red Horse
Transcript
Rob Dwyer (00:01)
Everybody we're back for another episode of Next in Queue today. I have a guest who has probably the most fun name for me personally to say all this season. Anders Boulanger. I love doing the French. Did I do it OK? Yeah.
Anders Boulanger (00:18)
Nailed it. Nailed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I might have shared with you before that like I have a Swedish first name. I was named after a Swedish hockey player. I'm Canadian, but named after a Swedish hockey player and then a French last name. So people often will go Andres Boulanger, which will screw up the first name or Anders Boulanger. So you kind of got to split the difference and you nailed it. Good job.
Rob Dwyer (00:42)
Well,
I feel really satisfied that I nailed it. I took an entire semester of French in high school because they ran out of German for me to take. And all I got from that was how to ask what time it is. And I don't understand you if you respond in French. And I know how to sing a fun little kid's song about
counting elephants. This is what I got.
Anders Boulanger (01:12)
I don't know
that one. But yeah, okay. Well, hey, at least you came away with something, you know.
Rob Dwyer (01:20)
Yeah, that's what I've got. Anders, you are the founder and CEO of Engagify, which is a company that specializes in infotainment, which I think is just a fantastic way to describe what it is that you do. But it's a different kind of infotainment that I think most people would think of.
Tell me a little bit about Engagify and then we'll get into talking about engaging people.
Anders Boulanger (01:58)
Sure,
yeah. Well, you know, I'm gonna, go back a little bit. Like I grew up doing magic and being a magician. So I was five years old, I got a Fisher Price Magic set for Christmas and started doing tricks at show and tell in kindergarten, that kind of thing. So I've always been performing and paid my way through university. I got a physics degree doing magic for fairs, festivals, that sort of thing.
did a lot of corporate work, conferences, and corporate events, and then I started doing trade shows. And so when I started doing trade shows, I discovered and other people have done this, and I studied for many people, that magic's a great tool to engage, right? It's got this aha factor, or this twist that people go, what? And in that moment, you can insert some messaging, and it's just like,
Very cool. So I started working for technology companies, talking primarily about software, sometimes hardware, but different companies that want to get a certain message across. And I use magic as my medium. So that is the infotainment. It's the information of the client combined with a unique form of entertainment. And it's not always magic. I do a kind of almost like a physics demonstration where I like shoot a rubber band and then it comes back to me.
It's like a boomerang rubber band trick shot, which is all physics, but you hang messaging on it and there's these engaging elements that you can make it so that people want to listen to the message, right? So we like to think of infotainment as the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down. And that is one of the main things that Engagify does is provide this type of infotainment for clients at conferences.
Rob Dwyer (03:49)
Okay, I have to know. Five-year-old Anders go-to magic trick out of the Fisher Price suitcase. What was the favorite trick that you learned?
Anders Boulanger (04:03)
Yeah,
I most should just run down and grab it. Hey, I have it downstairs. have it. It's like it's like a fake little suitcase. I think the easiest one was there was this like yellow drawer. And you there was a little bunny sponge bunny and you put it in and put the drawer in and open it up and it'd be gone. And that was kind of like one of the one of the easy go to well, they're all pretty easy to use for kids, right. But there's another one where your magic wand, a little flower appeared at the end.
Rob Dwyer (04:08)
Ha ha ha!
Anders Boulanger (04:33)
some fun things like that.
Rob Dwyer (04:33)
you
Okay, so that's five-year-old Anders. You just talked about your physics demonstration with the rubber band, but is there a favorite of yours today that you just love? Like this is the magic that I love to do.
Anders Boulanger (04:49)
For,
well, know, one of my signature pieces is where I will, I do challenges at the end of my presentations and gamifying, and we're maybe getting into this a little early, but gamifying and adding an element of risk does make things more interesting and engaging. So I will often have $2,000 on me and this sounds like, we gotta take that guy out.
I'm taking my roll them in the parking lot if you see him walking by but I have a fan of cash and Someone can win $2,000 from me at the end of my presentation So people want to stick around whether they're gonna get picked or they want to see if the person will win. There's this open Story loop that happens. And so one of the things I do is I give them a coin 50 cent piece and they have to
behind their back and put it in one of their hands and we do it three times in a row and I got to guess which hand it's in three times in a row and if I'm wrong they win two grand. And people do win, I try to you know contain it like I try to play games I'm very good at and so that has become a very like I say kind of a signature thing and people will come to watch to see what happens and and there's a lot of psychology into it as well so.
Rob Dwyer (06:06)
Yeah.
I
feel like we need to get a list of all of your appearances just so people can show up and try to win two grand.
Anders Boulanger (06:16)
Show up, yeah, not rob me, but
show up. Yeah, that's a big... I shouldn't be even saying that, like putting that out there, but anyways, yeah.
Rob Dwyer (06:25)
So trade shows, right? I've been to multiple trade shows. I imagine a lot of the people in the audience have been to a lot of trade shows and your whole intent about appearing at a trade show is to engage people with a brand. But can you talk to us about the difference between engagement and awareness?
and why I as a brand should be focused on engagement versus awareness.
Anders Boulanger (07:04)
Sure, One of the things that when you say that comes to mind is that, know, are people, like engagements thrown around a lot, you know, like people say, we're going to be giving out these pens for engagement. It's like, I don't know how much engagement, you know, someone grabbing a pen, you know, they're just like, thanks, I'm out. Like, so there's not a lot of, so I always like to say that engagement doesn't really come from technology or from, you know, swag. It comes from people, right?
We're giving people a reason to stop, but now you have to give them a reason to listen and you have to have those human elements involved, right? So brand awareness is thrown around a lot too. When you talk about objectives of a trade show, people will say lead generation and brand awareness. That'll be either number one and number two or number two and number one. And brand awareness, the amount of money people spend on some of these sponsorships is kind of insane, right?
$40,000 to put up this banner. just, okay. So that's brand awareness, you're just getting a logo in front of people, right? But if you can create engagement in your booth that connects with people on the human level, now you're not getting brand awareness, you're getting brand affinity, right? You're getting people to have a feeling about, maybe a memory of the messaging about what your company does and how they can help you, right? How they can help the...
potential customer. know, when we when you architect an experience in the booth, you want to have those things in mind that you want people to be able to feel something and have emotion involved. And oftentimes in corporate, we don't like to talk about emotions, right? Like, you know, but that emotion can be, it can be awe, it can be wonder, it can be laughter, it can be, there's lots of positive emotions to tap into. But we can also, you know, take them down the road of
how many people are feeling this pain? Because we understand our customers. And then you see these like nods of, yeah, you know. So if we can kind of take those people on a journey or tell that story that they're already feeling, you you can engage them, engage their minds. And if we can win that over and also with the emotions, kind of win their hearts, we're going to win their wallets. And so that's where we just want to think in a little bit bigger of a way.
as opposed to just giving away a pen, giving away a coffee. Let's try to make it less transactional and more transformational.
Rob Dwyer (09:36)
Well, and you hit on something that I am a firm believer in, and that is we buy based off of emotion, and then after the fact, we justify our purchases using logic. We don't buy because this is whatever product or service is the most logical choice. We buy it because there's a feeling associated with that.
Anders Boulanger (09:45)
Mmm.
Rob Dwyer (10:06)
you're trying to generate those good feelings so that people do want.
Anders Boulanger (10:13)
There's a Harvard researcher, professor, and in his findings, 95 up to 95 % of purchasing decisions are unconscious, which is a huge amount, right? And immediately we go, well, that's not the way I do it. But newsflash, it's unconscious, you don't really know you're doing it. You know, like, you can't, it's hard to like, disassociate yourself from your unconscious to do that. So
Rob Dwyer (10:36)
No.
Anders Boulanger (10:42)
what you had just said there, Rob, that we're justifying, you know, with logic, right? In the moment, we make sense of it. But we may have chosen to buy before we realize we've chosen to buy. And so that emotional piece to it and that unconscious piece to it, it's a little bit woo woo, right? Because it's kind of like we can't wrap our arms around it. It's very, it's not a concrete thing. It's not something that, you know,
you're going to companies betting a lot of money on in terms of marketing strategies or sales strategies. that's where it's a little bit tricky, right? But if you know that that is an underlying piece, it can be very powerful for the brands who understand that and support that.
Rob Dwyer (11:32)
Yeah. You said a word earlier that I'd love to dig more into, and that's storytelling and the power of storytelling. Can you tell us a little bit about how you approach that? Because you are working with, I assume, often new brands that you may not be familiar with when they first engage with you. So how do you go about
storytelling when it's someone that previously you didn't know the story of.
Anders Boulanger (12:08)
Well, I think storytelling, it can get thrown around a lot in corporate, like here's our corporate story, you know, and this here's the, and it's like, it's just actually more messaging, right? It's not like, but if we look at really the, you know, the elements of it, beginning, middle and end, there is a story arc, there's a journey, right? But sometimes it can be very, you know, make it small, make it like, here's the problem this person's having, here's the twist, and now they're great, right? So that,
has that beginning, middle and end, chase a monkey up a tree, throw coconuts at it, get the monkey out of the tree. That's, you know, like kind of a story recipe, if you will, right? So a lot of times in what we do, because we're incorporating and when I say we, we have a number of certified infotainers that work with Engagify. We're using, I guess, well, plots that we know in terms of repertoire that we currently
use, and we're able to plug in the right benefits and the right problems and the right areas to make that story. So the story is in a lot of times is a trick and I hate to call it a trick because it makes it sound so trivial, right? My mentor used to call it a transformation mechanism, which sounds so much cooler, right? So that's what we do. But the stories themselves, yeah, people, can, when you start even just
showing that you know where people are at and you start explaining something and there's things that we use that are called hypnotic language patterns. So if you say like imagine a world where it was easy to... As soon as you use the word imagine and then start describing something that's that is an example of a hypnotic language pattern. So it's almost a command for us to actually think you know or you say what would it be like if...
and then fill in the blank. People can't help but go into their minds and start thinking about it. And so the beauty of stories is most of it happens in the listener's mind, right? So you can start creating this story and building this case for people to take a closer look at a product or service by utilizing those certain language patterns, by injecting themselves into the story, right? Because they are like the main character.
Rob Dwyer (14:06)
you
Anders Boulanger (14:35)
they're seeing themselves in the story. And, you know, again, seeing something beginning, middle and end, they're gonna have a sense of closure. And, you know, and sometimes you don't want that. Sometimes you leave off the end because you want them to look for more, right? So stories are super powerful. I always call them like an engagement hack. You can be bad at a lot of things, but if you've got a good story, it's like an equalizer. worth.
Rob Dwyer (15:00)
Mmm.
Anders Boulanger (15:03)
taking a closer look at for yourself if you're trying to promote your personal brand or your company.
Rob Dwyer (15:09)
So speaking of engagement hacks, when I was a kid, I had the first NES, the Nintendo Entertainment System. And at one point, we got something that was a little magical. It was called the Game Genie. And it was this gold extension that you plugged the game cartridge into, and then you plugged it in, it gave you like,
Anders Boulanger (15:13)
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rob Dwyer (15:38)
cheat codes, right? Unlimited lives or whatever the case may be, right? It made things easier for you and it felt a little bit like magic. But I'm wondering if you've got like any genie cheat codes for the listeners, whether they're doing a presentation, maybe they're going to a trade show and they're not going to have you there, but they can do something a little bit better. What?
Anders Boulanger (15:58)
Yeah.
Rob Dwyer (16:07)
What cheat codes could you give out for free today?
Anders Boulanger (16:10)
Sure. Well, one of the things that we often talk about, and this applies to virtual, it applies to like at a trade show, it applies to any sort of thing where you maybe feel like you're losing engagement, right? Like you need it back. And this will save you what I'm about to share with you. And it's actually the acronym SAVEU. Okay, so I'm gonna go through them and we won't spend too much time on them because there's five of them. But the S is simple. So speaking in simple terms,
Rob Dwyer (16:31)
Mm.
Anders Boulanger (16:39)
Often corporate speak, know different, you know your vernacular even the word vernacular like what the heck you talking about right like the choice of the words you use Makes things more accessible and we don't want to turn off people or lose people right because of that, right? The people who aren't in the know or what have you so simplicity. So that's the first one Okay, the a is about authority. So that is credibility. That is how you show up, right?
Rob Dwyer (16:49)
Mm-hmm.
Anders Boulanger (17:08)
how you're dressed, how you speak. One classic example in terms of a vocal pattern is people who up speak. They kind of go up at the end of their sentences. Everything sounds like a question, right? And so it's like, you telling me or are asking me, right? So how can you package yourself so that you're an authoritative voice on what you're talking about? That's gonna make people wanna listen, right? Because they're the straight goods in that way, okay?
Rob Dwyer (17:36)
Mm-hmm.
Anders Boulanger (17:37)
The V stands for vary the senses or visual auditory and kinesthetic. I know there's five senses, not three, but when you talk about communication, we're not doing a lot of smelling and tasting of people's communication, right? So hopefully not actually. So with that, when we talk about something, that's an auditory term, right? We might be able to make people visualize certain things, right? And then they'll be able to see what we're talking about.
see what we're talking about, I just use the visual and an auditory, right? And then they can feel confident that they're getting their point across, right? So by varying the different types of words, you are hitting different people in the audience. And it's like a shotgun blast because certain people are going to associate to those different modalities more. And modalities is a big NLP word. So just like the different senses, right? So
Rob Dwyer (18:11)
Mm-hmm.
Anders Boulanger (18:35)
So that's the V, know, varying it because if you you will probably communicate the way that you like to be communicated. But that doesn't mean you're the same cup of tea for everyone. Right. So and then the E is emotion. And so we already talked about that. Right. Can you make people feel things through your voice? How you talk about it. Right. Can you talk about a problem so they can you can wallow in the pain with them? You know, and if you're like, has this ever happened to you? Yeah.
Nod your head if you know what I'm talking about, right? But what if we could do this? And now I'm going somewhere positive with my voice, right? And so we can create emotion, okay? And then the you is really about relevance. It's you focused, make sure it's on them. And the more we talk with yous and yours, instead of me's and mine and my company and mine, like no one cares. But if we can help the customer, the client by saying, hey,
Rob Dwyer (19:19)
Hmm.
Anders Boulanger (19:34)
How would you like it if your company had 54 % more in leads, or whatever the benefit would be? So those are the five that save you. So hopefully you'll remember them. Write them down, whoever's listening.
Rob Dwyer (19:49)
I love them. I love them all. Some of them even make me think of other specific guests that I've had on the podcast to talk about some of those very specific things in different contexts. Certainly the simple language makes me think about Leslie O'Flahaven, who is a proponent of using plain language, right? Which is just a way of writing and or speaking so that we communicate clearly to the
widest possible audience and using words and or phrases that some people may not understand really defeats the whole point of communicating because you lose the message.
Anders Boulanger (20:33)
Yeah, and I've heard, the smartest person is in the room isn't smart because they sound smart. It's because they communicate so that everyone else understands. And when you're dealing with a lot of maybe systems engineers or technical, you know, technical people, they're in, they want to stack rank themselves by who's smarter. so, you know, but when they're dealing with a customer, important, you kind of reset that and make it so
relatable and use metaphors that are relatable to help simplify that language.
Rob Dwyer (21:08)
Yeah, it's all about, and I think there are roles that excel in this and company or you need to excel in this and in companies specifically when you're talking about technical things, right? It's that translation of the highly technical into layman's terms and then vice versa, right? That's kind of the business analyst role is to be able to understand what a client wants and how to
get that across to someone who's highly technical and going to architect this, engineer this, and then vice versa when they ask a highly technical question or have some technical details that they're sharing. How do I present that back then in layman's terms to the business user who's actually going to use this and doesn't care about the jargon?
Anders Boulanger (21:52)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (22:01)
I do have a question for you that.
has nothing to do with the things that we've been talking about, other than slightly tangentially. I want to know, as someone who practices, I'm not going to call it the dark arts. We'll just say magic, infotainment.
Anders Boulanger (22:22)
I used to
say the light I did the lighter side of the dark arts. That's that's how I
Rob Dwyer (22:26)
lighter side of the dark arts. Perfect.
I want to know what's your favorite movie that has to do with magic or illusions.
Anders Boulanger (22:37)
Well, I mean, I think you know which one I'm gonna say just because it was so well done is The Prestige It's really yeah, and and I'll tell you why I like The Prestige in the way that it I Mean, it's not it's not a true story, you know by any means but the idea of rivalry during the golden age of magic which was that kind of like Last half of the the 19th century in the 1800s was that they were trying to outdo each other
Rob Dwyer (22:43)
really good.
Anders Boulanger (23:06)
all the time. And so the, what do they call it? The transported man or whatever that illusion where they, you know, they throw out the hat or bounce the ball and they're the Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale characters are eating. They captured that really well, right? And there's always going to be some stuff where you go, okay, that's not really magicians don't really do that or that whatever. But for the most part, it's such a great movie with a lot of great twists and turns, kind of like a heist movie, that it was a lot of fun and kept people guessing. And I think that really
Rob Dwyer (23:32)
Mm-hmm.
Anders Boulanger (23:36)
know, is kind of this spirit of magic is that that kind of mystery and those twists. So, on a related note, I live here in Winnipeg, Canada, and Winnipeg was on the vaudeville circuit, you know, people would come up from Chicago and everything. And one of our magic historians or the magic historian we have in our magic club, he actually has a picture of Horace Goldin and P.T. Selbit separated by a local Winnipeg magician and those two names I just listed.
They both are credited with inventing sawing a lady in half, which is such a classic. And they were at the same time, were, know, peers and they were actually touring Winnipeg at the same time and the Magic Club hosted them. And so the one local guy in between them looked pretty awkward because these guys hated each other, but they were, you know, being cordial and being at this event. that very much goes to that.
idea of the fierce competition between magicians.
Rob Dwyer (24:38)
They weren't holding saws where they weren't ready to saw him in half.
Anders Boulanger (24:40)
No, yeah, they'd be like, Hey,
know I claim this. Yeah.
Rob Dwyer (24:47)
I'm wondering if you just got some magic to help me grow my hair back.
Anders Boulanger (24:52)
Well, don't you think I'd have more if that was the case too? Yeah, it could be a choice.
Rob Dwyer (24:55)
Well, it could be a choice.
I like to tell
people this is a choice, I mean, it's nature's choice, but.
So outside of trade shows, know that trade shows are kind of bread and butter for you, but you talked about this just a little bit.
Anders Boulanger (25:16)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Dwyer (25:22)
Where else, like if we're not in person, we're not at a trade show, does that mean I can't employ any of these principles or are there other ways that I can engage people?
Anders Boulanger (25:34)
No, I mean,
we are recording this virtually, right? I'm not right with you. But that's really where we developed a suite of trainings for companies. And one of the things that happened during the pandemic, I think we all realize the zoom meetings and virtual meetings can be a little draining and boring and can suck. And so we did a lot of work with our clients where we did the whole pandemic pivot, right? But we shifted to
training people to have virtual engagement, right? To understand how they're framed, the lighting, the different things that they could do just to make it so people will take notice. know, like, what is that? What can you do that's going to just put you a little bit higher up than maybe the other sales call they took with your competition? What can you do to make it so that they remember your message more, right? And engagement is the answer. In fact,
I've got a book that'll be coming out and it won't be till next summer, but engage first is the title. So we have to engage first before we sell or persuade. And so the lights behind me, have these kind of just the pure listeners, I have these orange, you know, kind of lights that is on brand with our company. But what happened was one time there was a company named VMware, the company, it's a big tech company.
I got to be in front of a lot of their marketing director, event people, kind of, and they were going to be having a virtual summit, and they were looking for a virtual emcee. And the woman who ended up hiring us, self-admittedly said that she was multitasking on three screens during this meeting because there was multiple people. And I had my background lights on.
And she said, that's interesting. And she started paying attention just because of the background lights got me on my foot in the door. And then I did a thing where I leaned in and I shared a little secret. And I hushed tone and I moved closer to the camera. And she said she felt herself leaning into her computer. Like she was trying to listen to the secret. And she realized, hey, this is the guy I want to MC our virtual summit.
I was able to land that by showing up in a good way. In that case, I was selling engagement, virtual engagement really for their people and introducing their speakers. But the same goes for you. Be your own, know, engager, if you will, virtually speaking. But it also goes to in person. And here's the other side of it. Coming out of pandemic, lot of people forgot how to be in person. So we started.
Rob Dwyer (28:26)
Yeah.
Anders Boulanger (28:27)
doing more trade show trainings because there are people coming into the workforce had never been to a trade show before, right? Early in their careers and their sales careers or marketing careers. So there's that kind of twist. Plus the fact there's some generational things happening where there's a lot more, you know, screen and text message interactions and fewer, you know, you don't have to even.
Rob Dwyer (28:35)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anders Boulanger (28:51)
Talk to a cashier anymore at the supermarket if you don't want to, right? Like you just have fewer social interactions in general. So that what's old is kind of becoming new again, right? So those who can engage though, they're gonna stand out.
Rob Dwyer (29:07)
You know, that's an interesting point that you talk about, just how the world is changing and how we engage on a day-to-day basis with those around us. I wonder, have you seen changes when you were at trade shows, pre and post pandemic, in response, how people work with you or interact with you? What's that been like?
Anders Boulanger (29:29)
I feel like I,
and I don't know if I would even say pre and post pandemic as the, I mean a little bit, but what I'm saying too is just as younger generations come into the workforce on the sales side of things and because of the tech stack that companies sometimes have or employ, they're not even the sales development reps or the business development reps. A lot of them don't get on the phone anymore. So then they're then
you know, frontline customer response at a trade show or I should say like lead development. And they don't know they can't talk about the company because they haven't practiced talking about the company. They've written emails and done templates and then just kind of basically managed campaigns, email campaigns. So it's kind of like, you know, we're
Rob Dwyer (30:18)
Yeah.
Anders Boulanger (30:22)
taking our eyes off the ball a little bit in terms of that. And then when you think about those are the sellers that are going to be groomed up into business development reps and this sort of like, you know, are not reps, like BDM's business, fellow managers and account executives and that sort of thing. I've talked to some sales leaders who say that there's, there's kind of like a sales apocalypse that is brewing because of that. So, so that's, I do see the first bits of that.
And so that's, you know, cause to be aware for certain companies for sure.
Rob Dwyer (30:58)
You know, it reminds me, I've talked with people at companies who are relying or trying to rely heavily on AI to kind of focus that initial engagement. And I wonder what you think if we're leaving it up to AI to kind of bring those leads in.
Are we potentially setting ourselves up for some failures when we actually talk to a real human because the human isn't doing that messaging upfront?
Anders Boulanger (31:36)
I think they're gonna be a disconnect for sure. I I've been called, maybe we talked about this, Rob, when I interviewed you perhaps, but we were talking about a sales call. It was an AI sales call, right? And it's like, I probably stayed on the line longer just because I was curious, you know, but you don't get upset hanging up on an AI for sure, right? So, and if it's gonna make it up in numbers and try to find, but yeah, I think there has to be,
You're to have certain levels of expectation set, whether AI is setting that or whether humans are setting that. But when they don't match up, I think you're going to have find your failing moments of truth. And that's where you're either building confidence in the product or service, or you're losing the...
prospects losing confidence in it and creating stress, right? And so we want to be constantly building that trust. People realize you're the real deal and you can deliver and you can close on that sale.
Rob Dwyer (32:47)
Yeah. I wonder if there's anything that I've mentioned before that made you think about something you wanted to talk about that we haven't had a chance to get to yet.
Anders Boulanger (32:59)
that Wow, you say that one again, like I
Rob Dwyer (33:03)
Sometimes this happens to me. Someone will say something and I'll have this thought and I'm like, I want to talk about this, but then I get asked a question and I don't get to it. And so I wondered is there anything that we haven't had a chance to talk about that earlier you were like, I'd really like to share this.
Anders Boulanger (33:05)
right.
Right.
You know,
I mean, this for the most part, I think we kind of check the boxes that I normally talk about, you know, like we, we say here at engageify, we want to, you know, help companies, we want to help deepen connection and, also command attention. So, so that's the, when, we talk engagement, sometimes what gets messed up is they're like HR, like people's satisfaction with their job. Like, no, no, no. It's like, actually it's more about being engaging so that people pay attention.
Rob Dwyer (33:45)
you
Anders Boulanger (33:51)
And then we can build those, those relationships, right? And I think that when it all comes down to a business is about relationships, you hear that time and time again. And I think we have to be cognizant of that as we go into this AI era, that we're going to still need to know those people and trust those people so that. Can ships for business say.
Rob Dwyer (34:20)
percent. Well, Anders, if someone wanted to engage with Engagify and you in particular, I assume LinkedIn is is the best place to start anything else.
Anders Boulanger (34:27)
Please do. Yes.
is the main social that I like, you know, keep my eyes on the most because you know, it is we are in a b2b business in that sense. And then on my website on our website is engagify.ai. So that's E N G A G I F Y.ai The AI is not the AI AI we were talking about. The AI we talk about is authentic interactions. So that's why
Rob Dwyer (35:02)
love it. I love it. Not artificial intelligence, authentic interactions. For my listeners, you know the drill. Go down into the show notes. You'll see links to both the website and Anders LinkedIn profile. Anders, thank you so much for joining me on Next In Queue today. It's been awesome talking with you.
Anders Boulanger (35:24)
Well, thank you for having me. This is it's always a pleasure to talk with you,