Who the Hell Are You featuring Lindsay Haun

Transcript

Rob Dwyer (00:02.865)
Lindsay Haun, you are next in queue. How are you?

Lindsay Haun (00:07.118)
Hello, Rob Dwyer, ain't no party like a Rob Dwyer party, because a Rob Dwyer party has action figures, you know, I'm loving it.

Rob Dwyer (00:11.121)
That's right, that's right.

Rob Dwyer (00:16.113)
Look, they are minifigures. If one wants action figures, they go to Mattel. I am a Lego guy, and they are minifigures.

Lindsay Haun (00:19.086)
I, I.

Lindsay Haun (00:23.214)
I understand and represent, appreciate it. I get it, man.

Rob Dwyer (00:28.881)
They are much smaller, wider, have disproportionately large heads.

Lindsay Haun (00:34.606)
I relate quite a bit to that apparently. I am, except for the small part, I'm freakishly tall, because I drank a lot of milk and grew up next to a power plant, but everything else you named, totally there.

Rob Dwyer (00:37.169)
hahahaha

Rob Dwyer (00:47.825)
I like that there is something in the milk as they say. I don't know. It does about it good. It does you good. I mean, look, you are an elite athlete, as I understand it. So let's spend a little time. Let's spend a little time.

Lindsay Haun (00:51.758)
Yes, yes.

Lindsay Haun (00:56.686)
That's what I was told.

That's right. That is right. Don't let the chiseled... Yeah. Don't let the chiseled physique fool you. I am elite.

Rob Dwyer (01:13.361)
Let's spend a little time getting to know Lindsay because while everyone should subscribe to the podcast that you co -host, the Big Red Pod, which is so much fun, by the way, for people who who haven't listened, I'm going to right now get this plug in. Go check out the Big Red Pod if you're into support or if you're just into listening to people riff about funny stuff and making each other

Lindsay Haun (01:24.782)
I do.

Lindsay Haun (01:29.21)
thank you.

Rob Dwyer (01:42.801)
laugh incredibly about stupid things that they said. This is the podcast and it is one of my favorites. It is not necessarily the most consistent, but it's still one of my favorites, but.

Lindsay Haun (01:47.374)
Guaranteed.

Lindsay Haun (01:54.062)
Hey, I was told this was a safe space, Mr. Dwyer, how dare you?

Rob Dwyer (02:00.401)
Look, you don't have to be consistent as long as you deliver on the goods and you deliver on the goods. So tell us. Tell us about you. What is it aside from co -hosting this fabulous podcast? What is it that you do?

Lindsay Haun (02:08.302)
Hello, bar.

Lindsay Haun (02:13.806)
my gosh.

Lindsay Haun (02:20.334)
my gosh, nothing good, I assure you. Just chaos and turmoil all around me. But well, I guess we can start. I'm a Gemini. I like long walks on the beach and frozen yogurt. I'm not a fan of boba. I don't understand it and I find it weird. I do, it's really weird. So what do I do? No, come on, get out of here. No, I understand Boba Fett, it's gonna be fine.

Rob Dwyer (02:39.601)
As long as you're not talking about Boba Fett, I am with you.

Lindsay Haun (02:48.814)
Gosh, what do I do? You know, it's hard to, my wife still doesn't understand what I do. She tries to explain to people like, what does your wife do? And she's like, I don't know, but we have a house payment that seems to be paid, so that's fun. I kind of just started my worlds in taking odd jobs to promote or support my fleeting standup career, which never really took off. Again, I will blame the consistency piece.

But yeah, I've worked in tech support, kind of like Drake said, I started from the bottom, now I'm here. So I started out taking credit cards over the phone, working at video stores, all sorts of random stuff and just worked my way into leadership. Somehow they've given me a seat at the table. They've regretted it ever since. And I just run, I'm a nerd herder is what I call it. I help run organizations that usually have a technical focus, but there's always a customer support aspect to it.

So that's what I do, because I'm not so funny on stage, but I can give a hell of a PowerPoint, because people don't expect you to have a personality. So you throw a couple zingers in and they're like, this is amazing. So that's kind of what I do.

Rob Dwyer (04:00.049)
I love that you said you're a nerd herder and I think that should be your new LinkedIn title if it's not already. So make that happen for me. Just because that will make me laugh. You are very funny. Maybe you're first of all I gotta say you're not the first median I've had on the show.

Lindsay Haun (04:07.246)
Absolutely. Yes.

done.

I'm gonna go to bed.

Thank you.

Lindsay Haun (04:24.686)
Washed up comedian, yeah.

Rob Dwyer (04:27.089)
Look, I think it's unfair to call anyone a washed up comedian. It may not be what pays the bills, but if you're funny, you're funny. You make people laugh. You make people...

Lindsay Haun (04:38.926)
Well, look, I got a gig working at MySpace back when that was a thing. That's kind of how I cut my teeth. And I was like, what is this? Health insurance 401, okay. So I just stuck with it. I was like, this is amazing. So.

Rob Dwyer (04:54.801)
Are you the reason there's no more MySpace?

Lindsay Haun (04:58.126)
Look, I do have quite the history of working at places that then go out of business. I'm not going to lie. Video stores, MySpace, there was a web host I worked for. Maybe this is a bad idea to be on here publicly saying those things, but it happens. I blame Zuckerberg for MySpace. Facebook just destroyed us, but it was fun.

Rob Dwyer (05:20.145)
I think that's fair. Yeah, yeah, that's that's fair. I had a MySpace. I am not ashamed to admit and it was my first foray into social media. No, no. No clue. I don't even remember anything about it other than I could throw some pictures on there and I had some music and I found some cool bands on MySpace. So there's that.

Lindsay Haun (05:30.958)
Do you still know your top eight? Do you still talk to your top eight? Yeah. Forget those losers.

Lindsay Haun (05:43.534)
Yeah.

Lindsay Haun (05:48.686)
That was where it was at, was when it was more music focused. I will say, I remember being like, I can do some HTML, I'm so cool, look at those sparkles when you go to my page, what?

Rob Dwyer (05:51.857)
Mm -hmm.

Rob Dwyer (06:00.017)
Look, I had a GeoCities website at one point in time. Let's be real. Yeah. Yeah. I was hardcore. That's not what we're here to talk about at all. I mean, look, we can, but we do have an intended theme to the show, which is not to dive into the wonders and...

Lindsay Haun (06:02.702)
wow!

I get it man. I get it.

Lindsay Haun (06:14.094)
Unless you want to, I will never go on script, so.

Rob Dwyer (06:27.441)
not so wonderful things about MySpace or your employment history. These are not, these were not really plans as part of the topic. What I wanted to talk about was what happens when you have a new team.

Lindsay Haun (06:44.398)
Yes, absolutely.

Rob Dwyer (06:46.193)
There are lots of ways that this can happen, right? It can happen because you've gotten promoted and you have a new team. It can happen because you are hired and you're inheriting a team. It can happen just because someone says, Hey, why don't you have this other team as well? Or we're going to move you into this other role. And that can induce a lot of anxiety.

It is hard when you have new people and there are a lot of different strategies that you can take when that happens. And so I wanted to explore that with you. And I reckon you've got some experience in having a new team.

Lindsay Haun (07:28.27)
Absolutely.

Lindsay Haun (07:32.206)
Well, I did just tell you everywhere I work goes out of business. So I'm always getting new teams. My current employer is going to love that I said that. I'm just kidding.

Rob Dwyer (07:42.449)
Welcome, you're my new team soon you'll be out of a job. Thank you for reporting to me.

Lindsay Haun (07:45.87)
You're all going to be out of a job in like two years, but we're going to talk about Star Wars and you'll be super stoked we did. I mean, you know, there's so I've worked everything from big companies to startups. So I think there's another piece of when you might get a new team is also if your company expands, right? There's something new. So it could be a brand new team that you're going to start, which is exciting, or it can be something that you've inherited. No matter what you tend to be the inherited side, right?

Rob Dwyer (07:51.665)
Ha ha ha.

Lindsay Haun (08:15.662)
I think the first thing you can do is identify why these folks are now your folks. Was it a previous leadership change that you're taking over for? Was it a change in strategy? Was it that you've been hired on? Why were you hired on? I think you have to first understand why these new folks are with you before you can lead them or before you can kind of bring them into your existing team or you mesh into their team is why are you there? What did?

work in the previous leadership or regime? What doesn't work? What's the purpose? Were they in a completely different organization? Were they within your organization but just a different leader? You kind of have to identify all of that stuff first because then you understand, because again, this is not the team you hired usually, right? So maybe are they fit for the role and strategy you want to do when you move them under your.

I've been in scenarios where I've adopted teams that were kind of lone wolves. In the not too distant past, there was one where I was their fifth leader in like 18 months.

Yeah, so they would just get settled. And different leader with different specialties, right? So maybe it was, they were under, I'm just gonna make things up, like marketing and now they're in sales and now they're over in support, because it makes more sense. Do you know what I mean? So there's that piece you have to understand. You then have to understand, okay, I have them now. What are their strengths? What are their weaknesses? How are we gonna measure this? I don't think it's,

Rob Dwyer (09:29.009)
That's rough.

Lindsay Haun (09:57.294)
It's wise in any situation, this is gonna be shocking coming from me, but to come in too strong, like, you kind of have to meet everybody where they're at and assess why are they on the team previously? And it's not like a get in and fire them. You don't wanna do that, but you do need to understand strengths, weaknesses, and how they play into the new strategy that you're trying to roll out. How do you divide your time?

A lot of times I've gotten teams not because I'm like, I've got nothing to do. Sometimes it's the curse of competence where they're like, just give them to Lindsay or just give them to Rob. You know what I mean? Like, maybe the leadership doesn't know what to do with them. So it's not an easy thing to do. Hopefully in these cases, the remainder of your other team or wings or legs of that stool, whatever it is,

Rob Dwyer (10:31.249)
Yeah.

Lindsay Haun (10:51.854)
are stood up enough to where they can kind of run things for a minute while you shift your focus over onto this side of this new team. Because it's equally as uncomfortable for you as a leader as it is for the new team. Because they're like, some people may be legacy people that have been there for years and like, great, now I gotta get this asshole to like me too. You know what I mean? So you kind of have to, you have to meet where they are. The first thing you should do is immediately over communicate. Immediately get the one -on -ones on the books.

Rob Dwyer (11:12.113)
Yeah.

Lindsay Haun (11:21.87)
Meet every week, even if your cadence is every month usually with your team or every other week, for the first six months, meet every week. You want these folks to know, like, you just went through a big change, I'm now gonna be the one consistent thing. I will be here, we're gonna talk, I want you to get to know me just like I need to get to know you. You are my customer, your success is my success, here's the overarching goal, I want you here, because sometimes it can feel like you're not wanted when your team has moved around.

If you're new to a company and you're coming in as the new leader, ask the people, what worked? What did you like? Let's try not to change that if it makes sense. What didn't you like? And it's okay to say it. Like, no one's perfect, nothing's perfect. And we can always go back to what it used to be, but like talk to them. They're gonna be the ones that have the most knowledge and understanding. It's not the person that hired you, I guarantee you.

Rob Dwyer (12:12.561)
Yeah, you are a master of subtlety, if nothing else. Let's, I can tell you that one of the, one of my very first leadership roles was actually taking over an existing team and coming from an entirely different city, displacing someone who wasn't being fired, but was being put in a different role due to some changes that were going on. And so they wanted to leverage some.

Lindsay Haun (12:17.326)
Ha ha ha!

Rob Dwyer (12:42.769)
expertise that I already had that was going to be new to the company. And one of the things that I just did was like, I walked around, I asked a lot of questions and I didn't try to, to set up any like rules or processes right out of the gate. It was about, I need to build trust with these people.

first before I can ever anticipate being able to do anything else as far as motivating them and recognize that they have just had a relationship that was a trusting relationship. Like not broken apart, but all of a sudden, right? I'm the outsider coming in and you may find yourself in that situation.

Lindsay Haun (13:33.664)
Mm -hmm.

Rob Dwyer (13:38.449)
I can tell you that I was, I think, very successful in doing that, but it's not an easy position to be put in because some of those people had a really, really good relationship with their previous leader. And now, to your point, you're kind of the new asshole. And maybe that other person wasn't, and that is a challenge. Let's talk about the...

building process a little bit because you touched on that. So building a team from scratch. What's the first thing that you want to do if you're faced with that?

Lindsay Haun (14:25.006)
Great question, one of my many jobs. I sound like such a failure, it's true. I'll talk through that with my therapist, trust me. There's a whole NASCAR pit crew keeping this shit show running, I assure you. So there's people I can talk to about that. I worked at one place where we were a brand new startup trying to launch kind of like an on -demand Uber for like beauty services. And so what was interesting is we had,

Rob Dwyer (14:32.113)
It's not true. It's not true.

Lindsay Haun (14:54.926)
the funding before we had the customers and they're like, build your team. I'm like, great, but what are we gonna do? So I had to take a look at kind of, okay, I know what the next couple of months are gonna look like. We need to launch, then we need to put things in place to scale. And what is kind of the selling point of those situations is it was not like, hey, I know exactly what I'm doing. Nobody ever believes that, but like,

this is how we're gonna do it. And instead it was like, let's build this together, okay? We know the goal is that when we've launched and things are going, we wanna have quick response times. We wanna have a partnership. We want people that work with us to understand we're here to help. We're not like, you know, we had all these things we wanted to be and we said, okay, let's reverse engineer that. How do we do that? So identifying characteristics. I mean, first, to build a team, you have to have people that are not afraid to get their hands dirty, including yourself.

So whether you're adopting a new team, you're building a new team, do the job with them, don't just tell them how to do their job, right? Shadow, listen to calls, hell take a few, keep yourself sharp, keep those skills sharp. You don't wanna lose sight of the job that's being done. So you just kinda have to work together, surround yourself with people if you can that are like you but better at certain things than you.

I think a good leader is someone that's wise enough to know where they're weak and you bring people in or you work with people that can fulfill those gaps for you, because that's how it becomes a team. There's no I in team, but there's a me, right? So you just have to understand the objective, find the right people, and coach those that may not be the right in all, may not be right in all the ways, but they have enough where the, what do they say, the juices work the squeeze?

There's gonna be coaching. So you're trying to stand something up and then coach somebody else. It's a lot to do, but it's probably one of the most rewarding things. I love taking over new teams. Not only is it because it's fun to do, it's fun to help people grow and learn, but also they haven't heard my jokes yet. They'll think I'm still funny. I only have the same 20 minutes of material. If you do listen to the podcast, you will understand.

Rob Dwyer (16:51.057)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rob Dwyer (17:06.769)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (17:10.578)
I was going to say, the set list is fresh at that point because they haven't seen that set.

Lindsay Haun (17:15.79)
Yeah, it's fresh to them, you know? It's like what works in LA is not gonna work in North Dakota. I get it, I understand, you know? But in all seriousness, that's what's been really fun. I really enjoy taking a team similar to the kind of the example I gave where I was the fifth manager in 18 months and being like, you gotta home, you're with me, we got this. What do you wanna be when you grow up? How can we help you? If you wanna be the world's best magician in the world, I'm gonna help you be that person, because I'm.

guarantee you there's some skills that you'll use in that that you can use to make the customers feel awesome, right? So I love the challenge. I mean, don't get me wrong, I complain about it and cry about it when it's happening, like, rasa, rasa, rasa, but I got, something's wrong and something's broken, man. I have comfort in the chaos, you know? I love doing that. I love fixing things.

Rob Dwyer (18:04.945)
Did someone actually tell you they wanted to be the greatest magician in the world? Is this coming from a place of truth? Okay.

Lindsay Haun (18:09.166)
I'm still trying to find somebody. Yeah, his name, well, I won't tell you names, but it did rhyme with Schmavid Blaine. Just kidding. I don't know that, or Schmavid Schmopperfield. I don't know a lot of magicians.

Rob Dwyer (18:22.577)
I think I saw him in a support operations role one time.

Lindsay Haun (18:29.006)
Absolutely. And then you didn't.

Rob Dwyer (18:32.081)
And then I didn't because he was underwater for like an hour. That's what I paid for. Let's talk about, and maybe you've experienced this and maybe you haven't. I imagine that you're a pretty likable person though I don't have facts to back that up.

Lindsay Haun (18:33.678)
and then he vanished.

Lindsay Haun (18:53.518)
or experience, I assure you I'm not.

Rob Dwyer (18:54.609)
But I want to know, have you ever taken over a team and had someone who just, like you had a really hard time winning them over? And how did you approach that?

Lindsay Haun (19:07.726)
yeah.

Well, it started with my mother. No, I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding.

We're still working on that. She's on a pip. She's on a pip.

Rob Dwyer (19:17.969)
This has turned into your therapy session. I'm glad I could join the pit crew. That's great.

Lindsay Haun (19:23.534)
I know I'm gonna owe you a copay after this, absolutely. I have had that before. So I've historically worked in technology, right? Not because I knew it, but because I needed a gig and just kind of fell into it. There was a place where we were basically taking kind of the billing non -technical side of the world.

Rob Dwyer (19:40.017)
You

Lindsay Haun (19:50.478)
and combining it with the tech team because it made more sense to have double the resources to help alleviate some of the workload. It made complete sense, skill -based routing, train them up, right? So part of that, I was a team lead that was now part billing people or artists formerly known as billing. So maybe not the most technical, but we have our 10 key is amazing. And then I also had like the super techie, engineering -like.

Have you tried turning it off and on again? Like those kind of people on my team. And there was this one gentleman who was like, I'm not gonna listen to you. You don't know how to change a DNS record. You don't understand this. Why are you my team lead? And it took a, I mean, we had some one -on -ones. I mean, I had to tap into my conflict resolution of like, I understand. I know it's not you, it's me. But after a while and consistent,

conversations and I was very humble and like I know I don't know all the things, but I do know this one aspect of it. So I'm gonna ask you to take a leap of faith with me. And it took a really long time and when he finally left to move on to bigger and better things, he said, you know what, Lindsay? I completely thought this was the worst idea ever and I get it. I get it now. This was the right decision. And this was 15 years ago and actually I'm still in contact with him, but I mean, that one was rough.

That took a really long time. You have to have patience. Never go in and assume you're the expert. Just understand there might be a piece of understanding and knowledge that you bring to the table that warrants you in the role that you're in, but you don't know everything. If you come in and think you know everything, especially in the tech world, you'll get ripped apart. You will get eaten alive. So you have to laugh at yourself. You have to be humble. You have to trust that you know some things and that you're there for a specific reason.

Rob Dwyer (21:38.385)
in a hurry.

Lindsay Haun (21:46.382)
And just whether the storms, whether the haters, whether the doubters, because nine times out of 10, they're going to turn into your most loyal members of the team because you stuck in there. You know, you hung in there and you're like, I don't know. You're right. I don't know that. Maybe you can teach me, but maybe I can teach you some stuff, too.

Rob Dwyer (21:59.153)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (22:08.049)
Yeah, for young leaders in particular, or let me rephrase for less experienced leaders.

Lindsay Haun (22:14.766)
Are you trying to say that I'm not young? How dare you? There's a reason I dress like a 14 year old boy and it's because I'm young.

Lindsay Haun (22:26.222)
I love how uncomfortable I get to make you. This is so much fun. I love this.

Rob Dwyer (22:27.025)
Noted, noted. This is noted. For less experienced leaders, there can be a tendency to feel threatened when someone thinks you don't know what you are doing. And I love what you're saying, which is to go into it very aware and willing to share with.

Lindsay Haun (22:34.99)
There we go, I appreciate that.

Rob Dwyer (22:54.993)
the members of the team that, Hey, I don't know what I'm doing, right? I, you don't, don't have to put it that way. It's not that I don't know what I'm doing, but I don't know everything I'm learning. Just like you're learning. We're going to figure this out together. And then it becomes a we instead of that. I, and look, everyone is more willing to work with someone who is humble and recognizes that they don't know everything. And.

We're sharing and learning from each other. That's a great relationship. And if you're just telling me what to do all the time, yeah, I'm probably gonna be like, whatever.

Lindsay Haun (23:34.494)
Forget this guy, screw him. Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (23:38.001)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (23:42.097)
Let's talk about.

Lindsay Haun (23:42.336)
I, it's, I was just gonna say it's interesting, because I'm, as we just said, older, and I have to even catch myself if I have people or peers I work with that are clearly younger than me, but maybe the equal or kind of the same spot. I have to be like, this whippersnapper doesn't know what he's talking about, but I'm like, no, actually, eat your own dog food, let's take a beat and listen and see if maybe we can, maybe there's a reason that person's where they're at.

Rob Dwyer (24:06.833)
Yeah, I think it is important for everyone. And you see it more with leaders who are young. And this happens a lot in tech, right? It's often a bunch of young people coming together and then you see people, because of the need, rise in leadership quickly. And sometimes you have people supervising people that are quite a bit older than them.

Creates an interesting dynamic that can be very challenging on both sides of the spectrum, right? If I'm older and look I am old I'm gonna freely admit this Even though you're not we're definitely not the same age you were

Lindsay Haun (24:48.768)
I'm very old. My knees and back and midlife crisis are absolutely showing my age.

Rob Dwyer (24:55.665)
You were just coming out of the womb as I was in college, I'm sure of it. When, if I'm reporting to someone significantly younger than me all of a sudden, right, that's probably going to spark some feelings in me. And vice versa, if I am as a young leader trying to coach and develop someone who is my parents age, there may be some...

Lindsay Haun (24:58.958)
Heheheheh

Lindsay Haun (25:12.238)
For sure. yeah.

Rob Dwyer (25:24.657)
some challenges associated with that. And being able to navigate that and just look at each other as we're colleagues, we can both learn from each other. I can learn things from you, you can learn things from me. It's not always gonna work, but your chances of success go up dramatically.

Lindsay Haun (25:27.79)
Absolutely.

Lindsay Haun (25:48.846)
Absolutely. And you know, especially in the tech industry, there's a lot of times that really great individual contributors get promoted into leadership positions, but it necessarily haven't necessarily had the...

guidance on kind of like what that new role looks like. I know there's just been a lot of instances where an individual contributor will be promoted early in their career to a leader and they kind of just now do two jobs. They still do their individual contributor role, but they're also supposed to like, I gotta do a one -on -one and tell this guy his numbers. Like it's a mindset shift. So sometimes you have to have patience with your new leader as well. Like they're also just figuring this out. But if you're on the...

same side of the net, so to speak, or you understand you're on the same team and the ultimate goal is to succeed together, you can absolutely work through those things. Sometimes we have to remind ourselves what the end goal is to be able to work together on that level.

Rob Dwyer (26:51.441)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about some other facets of a new team.

What happens if I get a new team with functions, and I gather this has probably happened to you, with functions that I don't have any experience with? I think we've touched on this a little bit, but often, I lead teams because I've been promoted from within. Often, I have this experience or I come into an organization and they want me because I have some experience in.

function and I know the business, etc. etc. What about here's a whole new team. You've never worked in this area, but hey. Go for it. How do you? How do you deal with that dynamic?

Lindsay Haun (27:42.158)
Right?

Well, I really tap into my imposter syndrome and just eat my emotions. That's what I'm told. That's why I'm an elite athlete. It's kind of similar to what I was saying earlier. You have to understand why this team is yours now, what was working before, what wasn't.

Rob Dwyer (27:53.137)
They're calorie free.

Lindsay Haun (28:11.406)
I can tell you when I took over that team lead position, I had no idea the intricacies of the technology we were supporting. All I knew is that we had a really shitty CSAT score and our hold times were atrocious. So I said, okay, what can we do to solve those two problems? Because the role of a leader doesn't mean you have to know everything. You have to have a kind of...

big picture, high level understanding of what your team does and what they're supporting and what that service is, because you probably have to take escalations and you have to kind of understand so you can speak the reps language, but improving CSAT is not a technical problem to solve, it's a human problem. So you just kind of work on, okay, I know I can, let's focus on this one problem first, how I can focus. Start having conversations with the team around.

What's a really bad customer service experience you have? Because usually you can really find people that are willing to tell you the bad things that happened. this person, my coffee was messed up or whatever. You say, okay, what would have made that better? Well, if they had apologized or made a new one faster, okay, great. So that feeling is the same feeling people have when they're calling in. Remember that. So let's try to reverse engineer it. You have those kind of conversations of like,

person in the queue is not just a number or someone calling in to complain, I assure you they didn't want to call in today. Nobody calls anymore. We always text. Like, what's the matter with you, you boomer? But like, you know, I think humanizing, focusing on the CSAT, like those kinds of lessons you can teach, that's got nothing to do. You could be selling ice cream. There's still these fundamental things you have to do to be successful and to be a, to have a good customer experience.

It's got nothing to do with the service you provide. There's just some fundamental stuff. It's all people, it's humans. It's got nothing to do with the actual service.

Rob Dwyer (30:08.145)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We have to touch on something because I believe it's been brought up a couple of times now and that is your elite athleticism. Can you enlighten us as to the genesis of this?

Lindsay Haun (30:13.422)
Lindsay Haun (30:20.942)
dear.

Absolutely. Yes.

Lindsay Haun (30:30.766)
Is that like a Bible chapter, Genesis, something about a rib? My Utah is showing, right? We had a whole different book we had to pay attention to. That's why I don't understand it. So I have decided to run a marathon, which is so stupid and it's the dumbest thing ever and I hate running, but.

Rob Dwyer (30:33.297)
It is. It's a whole book, actually. That's the way I believe it. Yeah, it's...

Lindsay Haun (30:56.142)
I have a young child, she's three, so when she went into preschool, we got a little bit out of that toddler purgatory and my wife and I were able to think again and I was like, hey, I have some time in my day. People talk about being like, I see people getting up in the morning and running, why can't I be one of those people? So I've started to do what I call wogging, which is like a walk, jog, convulsing situation down the street. So I started with a 5K.

I did a 10K, my half marathon's in a couple of weeks, and then in March of next year, I'm going to dry heave and convulse my body for 26 .2 miles. It might take me 12 hours, but I'm gonna get it done. And I don't really know why, other than I'm probably having some kind of like existential dread or something. Like, I don't know. It's a stupid idea, but I've committed to it. And it really started out with like,

Rob Dwyer (31:46.705)
So.

Lindsay Haun (31:48.206)
how could I be a runner like these people are? And then of course me being extreme and like, I'm gonna run a marathon. Let's do that.

Rob Dwyer (31:55.441)
I mean, you set a audacious goal and you have a plan to achieve said audacious goal and you're hitting some milestones along the way, are you not?

Lindsay Haun (31:58.99)
I did.

Lindsay Haun (32:06.542)
Yeah?

Lindsay Haun (32:11.022)
very slowly and painfully. Yeah, for sure.

Rob Dwyer (32:14.321)
It is painful. So once upon a time I was a runner. I was born with flat feet, so that sucks. And I did get myself into a regular kind of 5K is was where I was never a marathon. And then and then I got old and my knees suck and my feet suck. And so now I don't do that.

Lindsay Haun (32:29.998)
Nice, I love that.

Lindsay Haun (32:36.398)
Right, happy is the best of us.

Rob Dwyer (32:43.121)
But I'm curious as you have been going along this journey, are you a, just the noise around you? Do you listen to music? Do you listen to podcasts? Like what, what do you do from an auditory standpoint as you're running?

Lindsay Haun (32:59.79)
man, so I do use, I'll do a free plug here. I'm sure they're ecstatic for me, but I use the Nike Run Club app that's I think free with everyone's iPhone and Apple watch. So this nice gentleman named Coach Bennett talks me through my runs. But I also have music on in the background, which is great for my ADHD. So I'm like, okay, I got like three things happening at once. I can kind of zone out. A lot of Tupac, a lot of Gangster app. I'm not going to lie because I feel like I'm a badass when I run.

Rob Dwyer (33:23.857)
Yeah.

Lindsay Haun (33:26.51)
Usually I'm just smocking around like a middle -aged white woman, but my headphones are like super cool. I get to be angry and like run things out. I have started to kind of listen to some audio books, which have been helpful on like the longer runs that are like a couple of hours. Not that they should take a couple of hours, but they take my wogging a couple of hours, which has been helpful because it's a distraction. But...

Rob Dwyer (33:34.481)
I mean...

Rob Dwyer (33:48.433)
Ha ha ha ha!

Lindsay Haun (33:54.414)
Yeah, I like to mix it up, but music, something's always happening. I don't want to hear the traffic. I don't want to hear my neighbors that think it's cool to like, hey, go Lindsay. And I'm like, I don't want you to see me. That's why I got up at 630. This is supposed to be for my eyes only. So.

Rob Dwyer (34:14.417)
I too like to run in the dark when no one is around. That was my jam. There was a time when I was actually... no, no. I...

Lindsay Haun (34:21.902)
I got like a little headlamp, I have like a fanny pack and a visor. My wife is like, wow, that'll happen. You know what I mean? Like I do, I look like I'm gonna be a coal miner that has a lot of water.

Rob Dwyer (34:37.201)
How are you not divorced already with that getup?

Lindsay Haun (34:40.846)
Like I said, the house payment is still happening. We got a kid. We got a kid together. That makes things more complicated. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we're just like, well, shit, I guess we got to ride this wave out. You know, she's, she's, she's, she handles it. She's just like, okay, sure. You're going to run a marathon. I'll go buy some poster board. But now I'm actually doing it. So she's like, well, shit. Now I have to go stand at the finish line and watch you like.

Rob Dwyer (34:43.633)
True, true. You're in. Yeah, yeah, you're the tentacles are deep. I understand.

Rob Dwyer (34:55.601)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm...

Lindsay Haun (35:09.966)
convulse pass and then eat a free banana. This is stupid.

Rob Dwyer (35:13.329)
Look, in all seriousness, I have to cheer you on and celebrate the fact that you are making this incredible effort. And for people who don't run, a marathon is no joke. It is insane level, far more than I could ever do. Just getting to like 5K is really, really impressive. So the fact that you are.

Lindsay Haun (35:21.102)
I appreciate that.

Lindsay Haun (35:30.222)
No.

Lindsay Haun (35:41.23)
Well, thanks.

Rob Dwyer (35:42.289)
have moved past that. I know that you like to joke about it and poke fun at yourself. But the reality is it's a lot of work. If you have the endurance to do it regardless of the time, like good on you. That's awesome. And your heart thanks you, I'm sure.

Lindsay Haun (35:44.398)
I'm a -

Lindsay Haun (36:01.966)
look at those unclogging arteries. So cute. Can they unclog? I'm not a scientist, but.

Rob Dwyer (36:07.121)
I've entered this.

Yeah, I think so, but I've entered the stage of my life where I'm just actively finding new ways to clog them, not the other way around. And that probably should change, but whatever.

Lindsay Haun (36:19.118)
Absolutely.

You know.

I'm just excited to be like one of those cliche leaders that are like, I ran a marathon. Look at me, I'm Chris Trager from Parks and Recreation. I literally just ran 10 miles. So I'm like, I'm gonna just do the cliche thing and see what this is all about.

Rob Dwyer (36:40.881)
Well, there's...

Lindsay Haun (36:41.582)
You know you've had one of those leaders that's like, I do fucking mud runs for fun, you know?

Rob Dwyer (36:47.185)
I mean, the question is, are you going to also get into what's the diet that he promotes? Yeah. Are you going to go into that? No.

Lindsay Haun (36:55.15)
the keto? Or the keto or the keto? No. I don't understand it. It terrifies me. I'm okay. I'm good. I'm not trying to do this for dietary purposes. I have to have something, Rob. Give me something.

Rob Dwyer (37:11.025)
OK, OK, so let's fast forward. A year from now, you will have completed a marathon. You will be officially a marathoner, I believe is what they call those.

Lindsay Haun (37:13.134)
Don't take that from me. Okay.

Lindsay Haun (37:21.326)
Yeah, I will.

Lindsay Haun (37:29.39)
Nerd Herder and Marathoner is going on my LinkedIn for my 10 followers.

Rob Dwyer (37:33.073)
So what comes next? Because there's going to be something new. Have you thought that far ahead?

Lindsay Haun (37:37.358)
No, no, I'm sure I'll have like a breakdown of some sort. Actually, what I'm gonna do at that point is I'm going to become as sloth -like as humanly possible and try to be even more out of shape than I was when I started. You know, like you gotta have goals to work towards. I feel like that one's gonna be easier to achieve. But no, I mean, I don't think I'm gonna turn into one of these like marathon people, but I might be like half marathon 10K or just cause the medals are fun.

Rob Dwyer (37:56.913)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rob Dwyer (38:09.649)
Medals are fun, absolutely. Speaking of sloth -like, I understand that you tell fun stories to your young child, but you've eschewed coming up with your own creative stories.

Lindsay Haun (38:11.598)
Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Lindsay Haun (38:23.374)
Me too.

Lindsay Haun (38:31.15)
Correct.

Rob Dwyer (38:32.561)
Let's talk about what you actually tell.

Lindsay Haun (38:37.646)
Absolutely. Look, my wife's an amazing mother and I am bringing down the curve for sure. But one thing I can do is I've given up on the idea that I can actually create something funny or entertaining for a four -year -old. So I've just been retelling her the plot lines of 80s movies, but taking out the inappropriate or not for a four -year -old's consumption. She's really into the Goonies right now, which...

Obviously I have to remove the Fratellis and they're being chased by bad guys. So it's really just some kids find a map in their attic and drive their bikes down and then go into an abandoned restaurant and find a tunnel, find a pirate ship and then they get out. But she's like, she loves it. So, you know, back to the future. I think Indiana Jones, I think when you're five, you can understand what a Nazi is, right? So then maybe I'll do like the Indiana Jones series, right? Isn't that who they fight in the first one? Doesn't he fight the, yeah, yeah.

Rob Dwyer (39:32.049)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if you should be introduced to Nazis at five, but hey, I'm not gonna object. I do have to know, I do have to know, do you demonstrate the truffle shuffle when you're telling the Goonies story?

Lindsay Haun (39:35.118)
Yeah, so we'll see.

Lindsay Haun (39:39.95)
It's a my dog's good side.

Lindsay Haun (39:52.59)
I just told you I wog every morning. Every morning I am truffle shuffling all over this town.

Rob Dwyer (39:55.985)
That's different. That's just for you and your admirers out in the world. Does your daughter get the truffle shuffle? That's...

Lindsay Haun (40:02.094)
the truffle shuffle, for sure.

I haven't done that yet, I'm going to. But then she's gonna do it at preschool. Look, there's gonna be notes home. I already know that with me being a parent, but.

Rob Dwyer (40:17.329)
I have to tell you there were certain things in my parenting life that I, there were moments where I felt like, okay, I won. And those moments were often moments where like my kids knew the words to the right song. Like when my son was introduced to the Wu -Tang Clan at probably an inappropriate age,

Lindsay Haun (40:37.998)
Yes.

Lindsay Haun (40:46.606)
That's what I'm talking about.

Rob Dwyer (40:48.945)
but loved it. Like, then I was like, okay, I've succeeded as a parent. I...

Lindsay Haun (40:54.766)
Wu Tang ain't nothing to puh -puh with.

Rob Dwyer (40:56.977)
That's right. So the notes will come. It's fine as long as you're providing an enriching environment. I think that's all that matters.

Lindsay Haun (41:07.342)
Let's not get too ahead of ourselves. I did find some, well, on that same note, my kid will go to the playground and there's usually a lot of children wearing like baby Yoda stuff. And she'll be like, that's Grogu. Like she gets offended if people say baby Yoda. She's like, that's Grogu. What's the matter with you?

Rob Dwyer (41:11.121)
Ha ha ha ha.

Rob Dwyer (41:30.193)
Yeah, you're doing something right. Things are all right in the world. Yeah.

Lindsay Haun (41:32.558)
Yeah, she'll be okay. She'll be all right. She can get through this mad house. She's gonna be just fine in the world.

Rob Dwyer (41:40.945)
OK, seriously, Lindsay, we've talked about a lot of ridiculous shit and some important things about taking over teams.

Lindsay Haun (41:49.71)
Look, you invited me on the podcast. You have no one to blame but yourself. No one to blame but yourself.

Rob Dwyer (41:55.281)
aware of this. Look, my regret will live on for decades, but I want to ask you, is there anything about taking on new teams that you were like, well, I mean, we really should talk about this, but Robert can shut up and give me the opportunity, or I just didn't tee it up. Like, I know that you've probably got some incredibly insightful things to say.

Probably not thinking about them because I've distracted you with Wu Tang, but what's out there that we haven't talked about that you think needs to be in the world.

Rob Dwyer (42:38.737)
OK, thanks for that. That was incredibly insightful, everyone.

Lindsay Haun (42:38.83)
I think there's, yeah, good times. I'm so ready and teed up for that. Also my thinking face is with my mouth open, so that's super fun. I look like, yeah, it's good times. I'm really glad this is video by the way. I think it's important to balance the fine line between KPIs, targets, strategy, and not overwhelming or micromanaging the team.

because it can be very easy. I know I just said do all your one -on -ones and stuff, but don't do all your one -on -ones in the beginning and be like, and this is how you do it. Just kind of take a beat, like slow, slow boil, like hang on now. You can start to show your expectations and kind of what the targets look like, but you don't necessarily have to come in hitting them over the head with it, right? Like take a beat. This is new for you, it's new for them. Targets and KPIs are incredibly important.

We need to make sure we're measuring what we're doing, making data -driven decisions, yada, yada, yada, but slow down. What do they say? Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

Rob Dwyer (43:43.377)
Is that what they say? I've never even heard that before.

Lindsay Haun (43:45.166)
That's what they said on Modern Family at one episode and I feel like Phil Dumpy is my spirit child, so.

Rob Dwyer (43:54.513)
I see it now. I hadn't seen it until just now, but now I get it. I get it. Well, I think that's incredible advice. I am not going to remember that saying, but I like the advice behind it. So yeah, just mark that one on the board. Lindsay.

Lindsay Haun (43:56.302)
Yeah!

Lindsay Haun (43:59.822)
You're welcome.

Lindsay Haun (44:15.95)
That's my bumper sticker for today.

Rob Dwyer (44:18.065)
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for joining me. It's been incredible.

Lindsay Haun (44:21.166)
Dude, Rob, I'm so sorry that I destroyed your podcast and it's such a bad episode, but you're welcome.

Rob Dwyer (44:26.993)
It's a brilliant episode. It will be one of the few that needs to be marked with explicit content, but that's OK. I.

Lindsay Haun (44:32.942)
Look, this was a solid PG -13. We only had one F -bomb. And I think technically you're still allowed to put this as a PG -13.

Rob Dwyer (44:41.969)
I don't think we've got a studio behind us putting the movie out. I know, there was a time, so let's just talk about podcasting for a little bit. Just quick, there was a time when I would take little snippets of this podcast and promote them before the episode was out, like a trailer, right?

Lindsay Haun (44:47.394)
Okay.

Lindsay Haun (45:08.718)
Yeah.

Rob Dwyer (45:09.713)
to get people excited about what was coming. And at some point, with some guidance from someone with more experience than me, I recognize that the production value of this show is not Disney Plus quality, and people are not waiting with bated breath.

going, my God, I can't wait till Friday when next thing Q comes out. Like that's not a thing. And it's not. So I started promoting it the day it comes out and then after, because you can do that to bring awareness, but really trying to get people excited. Like you're the next great Disney plus show for a

Lindsay Haun (45:41.358)
I am, how dare you.

Rob Dwyer (46:04.401)
podcast that talks about stuff like this. Like it's super niche, super niche. And so yeah, I just thought I would share that with you so that when you and your compadres decide to pump out another episode that it did, it did.

Lindsay Haun (46:07.278)
I know it's a very niche market we have, right?

Lindsay Haun (46:25.614)
There was one that dropped today. Stop being so judgy. Yeah, we put another one out today. Look, in our defense, Dallas, who's one of my amazing co -hosts, he edits this himself so he can put his film school degree and all that student loan debt to use. And so he's doing it for free. We kind of gotta be like, man, when you get to it, it's okay, bro. We can't bug him too much.

Rob Dwyer (46:45.137)
Yeah, yeah. So shout out to Dallas and Tristan guys. We haven't met, but I enjoy you guys. I enjoy the big red pod. Just give it another plug. Go check it out. There's a new episode out today. I can even know about it, which by the time you are listening to this, it will be a couple weeks old, but go check it out anyway. It's we'll put a link to it in the show notes.

Lindsay Haun (46:50.094)
Ehhhh

Lindsay Haun (47:12.302)
look at that technology, a link? I love that. I love that for them.

Rob Dwyer (47:14.745)
Lindsay, thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate it.

Lindsay Haun (47:20.622)
Rob, absolutely. Look, again, I apologize in advance, but I do appreciate it and we'll get you on the big red pod for our 10 listeners. They're going to love you.